Well I think it does quite a few other things better than Spring also Fizwizz no need to get unrealistically Spring patriotic, but of course Spring will probably be a lot better in a year or so when SupCom is released.
As for death animations Fnordia and I fixed the basics for that about a week ago and this weekend we where planning to add some new emitable stuff so that units can actually do something cool while dying :)
First SupCom Video: ChrisT's Second Coming, on Tape
Moderator: Moderators
SJ wrote: As for death animations Fnordia and I fixed the basics for that about a week ago and this weekend we where planning to add some new emitable stuff so that units can actually do something cool while dying :)
Absolutely brilliant. I'm really looking forward to this. Any chance we could define the stuff that units might emit, rather than a hardcoded graphic like the plasma shell or whatnot?
On topic: yow. SupCom looks like its going to melt my CPU.
But then again, Supcom will also enjoy another year of development, by a paid development team...SJ wrote:Well I think it does quite a few other things better than Spring also Fizwizz no need to get unrealistically Spring patriotic, but of course Spring will probably be a lot better in a year or so when SupCom is released.
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
supcom will be the new TA no question.
Spring needs a lot of things added untill it will be able to mess with Supcom.
The main points which "should" be added to spring are:
- different explosions (not only size, but color and style)
- more and better weapon effects with transparency
- light effects
- music
- interface
- sounds of units hearable not only when you click em but when they are near to the camera
- modders should be able to add global variables and edit them with unitscrips (so that you can make global upgrades)
- modders should be able to change unit values per script (range, LOS, HP, speed,...)
i think the rest is up to the modders such as high poly models and textures.
Spring needs a lot of things added untill it will be able to mess with Supcom.
The main points which "should" be added to spring are:
- different explosions (not only size, but color and style)
- more and better weapon effects with transparency
- light effects
- music
- interface
- sounds of units hearable not only when you click em but when they are near to the camera
- modders should be able to add global variables and edit them with unitscrips (so that you can make global upgrades)
- modders should be able to change unit values per script (range, LOS, HP, speed,...)
i think the rest is up to the modders such as high poly models and textures.
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
Supcom has the advantage of not being hindered by its community wanting it to be an exact remake of TA.
All of Springs groundbreaking changes from TA have been shot down by the TA community. Auto-firing at radar, ghosted buildings, group AIs, units not firing through each other.
It's a shame because Spring could be really really amazing instead of just good if people were encouraged to code stuff that diverges from TA.
All of Springs groundbreaking changes from TA have been shot down by the TA community. Auto-firing at radar, ghosted buildings, group AIs, units not firing through each other.
It's a shame because Spring could be really really amazing instead of just good if people were encouraged to code stuff that diverges from TA.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Yet all that stuff is still there, isn't it? And the core of the makers, the SY, were old old TA players as well.Lindir The Green wrote:...
All of Springs groundbreaking changes from TA have been shot down by the TA community. Auto-firing at radar, ghosted buildings, group AIs, units not firing through each other.
....
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Mars Keeper
- Posts: 240
- Joined: 25 Jan 2005, 21:00
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
I think Spring is fantastic for what it is. Better then fantastic.
At the same time, I don't think it can realistically compete with SupCom. SupCom has a professional team, working professional hours, and has one of the best design leads in the world running it (not that the SY's are sub-par, but the community stranglehold on Spring has potentially stifled it's drive a little).
I won't stop playing Spring when SupCom comes out. I'll play a helluva a lot of SupCom, but they are different games, and I get different things out of them. I can see Spring hanging around for a long time, with new benefits, new changes, etc.
Firstly, Spring IS TA. It wouldn't be here if it wasn't TA, and ignoring TA's roots would be immensely silly, because TA is a game that has yet to be surpassed as an RTS experience.
Secondly, the few people (it seems to be just Gnome and me now) who are still here from the TA old guard, and we are completely drowned out by the multitude of voices calling for endless things that are largely against the design motto of TA. All the things you mentioned have all been put in by Spring, and they have alienated many TA players.
The most popular mod is not OTA. If it was, then Spring should definitely reflect OTA a lot more. OTA is rarely played, if at all. Absolute Annihilation, a mod disliked by much of the online OTA community, is the most popular mod.
I don't know where you are seeing this hoarde of evil OTA players. The fact is, the majority have either been turned off, or assimilated.
At the same time, I don't think it can realistically compete with SupCom. SupCom has a professional team, working professional hours, and has one of the best design leads in the world running it (not that the SY's are sub-par, but the community stranglehold on Spring has potentially stifled it's drive a little).
I won't stop playing Spring when SupCom comes out. I'll play a helluva a lot of SupCom, but they are different games, and I get different things out of them. I can see Spring hanging around for a long time, with new benefits, new changes, etc.
This is a pretty silly thing to say.Supcom has the advantage of not being hindered by its community wanting it to be an exact remake of TA.
All of Springs groundbreaking changes from TA have been shot down by the TA community. Auto-firing at radar, ghosted buildings, group AIs, units not firing through each other.
It's a shame because Spring could be really really amazing instead of just good if people were encouraged to code stuff that diverges from TA.
Firstly, Spring IS TA. It wouldn't be here if it wasn't TA, and ignoring TA's roots would be immensely silly, because TA is a game that has yet to be surpassed as an RTS experience.
Secondly, the few people (it seems to be just Gnome and me now) who are still here from the TA old guard, and we are completely drowned out by the multitude of voices calling for endless things that are largely against the design motto of TA. All the things you mentioned have all been put in by Spring, and they have alienated many TA players.
The most popular mod is not OTA. If it was, then Spring should definitely reflect OTA a lot more. OTA is rarely played, if at all. Absolute Annihilation, a mod disliked by much of the online OTA community, is the most popular mod.
I don't know where you are seeing this hoarde of evil OTA players. The fact is, the majority have either been turned off, or assimilated.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Of course there is a reason - there's several. But I don't think those reasons have much to do with how good or bad the design is.
I don't have anything against AA, and I didn't imply any hostility. I do wish it wasn't so all-dominating, in that it has sort of squeezed out other mods, but I haven't played it nearly enough to make any justified comments on it.
I don't have anything against AA, and I didn't imply any hostility. I do wish it wasn't so all-dominating, in that it has sort of squeezed out other mods, but I haven't played it nearly enough to make any justified comments on it.
There is a problem there though. AA is simply too popular in this community, thus new mods never get the chance to shine because they're not appreciated and users tend to ignore them in favor fo the AA mod everyone else is playing.
For one where do players of these new mods go when they see ther'es nothing but AA games going on?
My thought is that the quickest solution si to present new users with a choice of several mods on installation, not stressing AA at all maybe not even mentioning it, as they'll probably get AA afterwards anyways, then a large influx of users would break AA's stranglehold without compromising tis popularity, and allowing enw mdos to come forth, then once there's a balance achieved AA can be added to that selection and we can forget it ever happened untill another mod starts to dominate and squeeze out toher mods...
One thing you're forgetting is spring can run on linux which supcom cannot, thus we have a huge advantage in that spring si very likely to be one of the most developed RTS engines on the linux/Mac platforms and would be a huge opponent for any other opensource RTS to take on should it dump the mods bundled with it and provide GPL alternatives for linux distributions to bundle, and omni is finished...
For one where do players of these new mods go when they see ther'es nothing but AA games going on?
My thought is that the quickest solution si to present new users with a choice of several mods on installation, not stressing AA at all maybe not even mentioning it, as they'll probably get AA afterwards anyways, then a large influx of users would break AA's stranglehold without compromising tis popularity, and allowing enw mdos to come forth, then once there's a balance achieved AA can be added to that selection and we can forget it ever happened untill another mod starts to dominate and squeeze out toher mods...
One thing you're forgetting is spring can run on linux which supcom cannot, thus we have a huge advantage in that spring si very likely to be one of the most developed RTS engines on the linux/Mac platforms and would be a huge opponent for any other opensource RTS to take on should it dump the mods bundled with it and provide GPL alternatives for linux distributions to bundle, and omni is finished...
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Deathblane
- Posts: 505
- Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 01:22
OK, I've played many an RTS game including loads of TA (from 98 onwards) and the thing I most like about spring in general and AA in particular is that there's almost nothing wrong with it. The spring engine incorporates almost all the best innovations in RTS gaming from the last decade. Bugs get fixed regulerly, and the few 'missing' features (like say research) are getting added slowly but surely.
With AA it's the ballence and variety that really keeps me hooked. There's a hole load of strategy's and tactics and very little that really goes against what feels like commen sense.
Whilst SuperCom is going to have a crap load of amazing features and brilliant optimised graphics once it's done it's done, and any imballences in the shipped races will have to be worked around (OK, I'm sure they'll patch anything really important but I doubt I'll see the same number of ballence changes as AA, or potentially any of the other spring mods). And if someone post release comes up with some sort of super origional RTS feature they aren't going to code it into their engine.
Hell they way I see it is SuperComm is going to be amazing but will age while Spring will (hopefully) continue to grow and change for many a year.
Oh yeah, and possibly another reason why people stick to a single mod is theri complexity. It takes a fair few games of most of the mods to actually be any good.
With AA it's the ballence and variety that really keeps me hooked. There's a hole load of strategy's and tactics and very little that really goes against what feels like commen sense.
Whilst SuperCom is going to have a crap load of amazing features and brilliant optimised graphics once it's done it's done, and any imballences in the shipped races will have to be worked around (OK, I'm sure they'll patch anything really important but I doubt I'll see the same number of ballence changes as AA, or potentially any of the other spring mods). And if someone post release comes up with some sort of super origional RTS feature they aren't going to code it into their engine.
Hell they way I see it is SuperComm is going to be amazing but will age while Spring will (hopefully) continue to grow and change for many a year.
Oh yeah, and possibly another reason why people stick to a single mod is theri complexity. It takes a fair few games of most of the mods to actually be any good.
Another thign is I'm sure that some of the gigalithic maps (coins the phrase Gigalithic maps for maps of immense size like 1000x1000) can be remade in spring using zaphods renderer, whcih in it's first incarnation supports a 4kx4k map with a 2kx2k gamespace. Have we ever seen the edge of the map in SupCom? I think that's somethign we'll have to wait and see, but if the first incarnation of zaphods renderer released cna do 4kx4k then just imagine what it'll be in say a year, considering the wya the existing format was developed and the previous format had its max size of 16x16 extended.
And to think a 4kx4k randomly generated map could be made within the next few months without hours of generating time....
And to think a 4kx4k randomly generated map could be made within the next few months without hours of generating time....
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el_muchacho
- Posts: 201
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:06
I am also completely floored by the scope of Supcom. But it's not only the visuals that is impressive.
I think that we are missing the most important point, which is the one that has been stressed by CT from the start, that is : SupCom is a full-scale game of strategy. The instantaneous zoom in/out will obviously be constantly used during gameplay.
So the gameplay will actually be somewhat different from Spring and probably from any other RTS for a good while, I believe. The Supreme commander, that is you, will have the possibility to manoeuver at several places at a time from his headquarters. Everything in this game is designed to allow maximum flexibility towards this goal : large maps, multiple independent screens, user customisable and scriptable GUIs that can be chenged in-game, everything multithreaded so that the game scales well on multiprocessors, etc. I don't think any other RTS game has been this ambitious, and I believe this is due to the overboard personality of CT, who seems to have no limits (for our own good
.
The visuals are only result of this grand ambitionthat CT has been ruminating for years (and great programming skills of the team, obviously).
So I's boldly say SupCom is really a spiritual successor to TA, and it is designed to be as revolutionary in 2007 as TA was in 2007.
I think that we are missing the most important point, which is the one that has been stressed by CT from the start, that is : SupCom is a full-scale game of strategy. The instantaneous zoom in/out will obviously be constantly used during gameplay.
So the gameplay will actually be somewhat different from Spring and probably from any other RTS for a good while, I believe. The Supreme commander, that is you, will have the possibility to manoeuver at several places at a time from his headquarters. Everything in this game is designed to allow maximum flexibility towards this goal : large maps, multiple independent screens, user customisable and scriptable GUIs that can be chenged in-game, everything multithreaded so that the game scales well on multiprocessors, etc. I don't think any other RTS game has been this ambitious, and I believe this is due to the overboard personality of CT, who seems to have no limits (for our own good
.The visuals are only result of this grand ambitionthat CT has been ruminating for years (and great programming skills of the team, obviously).
So I's boldly say SupCom is really a spiritual successor to TA, and it is designed to be as revolutionary in 2007 as TA was in 2007.
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Spring isn't really held back by people wanting an exact replica of TA. Spring is held back by not giving the option of replicating TA exactly along with all the other possible options on the mod side.
If spring is going to realisticly compeate with sup comm in the first few months after it's release (which I don't think is really plausable) there's alot of changes that need to be made to the engine before that time so that it's more of a proper style game engine and less of a TA engine clone with new features.
If spring is going to realisticly compeate with sup comm in the first few months after it's release (which I don't think is really plausable) there's alot of changes that need to be made to the engine before that time so that it's more of a proper style game engine and less of a TA engine clone with new features.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Deathblane: One of the criticisms of AA is that it is so constantly changing,t hat nobody ever has the opportunity to get any good at the game. Many players believe that it takes time and effort to finetune strategies so that they become more of an artform, and many of the disenchanted TA players feel that as soon as they start to finetune a strategy, it is labeled as unbalanced (because nobody else is willing to put in the time or effort to learn/beat the strategy), and fixed in the next version.
SwiftSpear: I don't see why people think Spring needs to 'compete' with SupCom at all. They are completely different things. I mean, consider the popularity that Soldat or liero, the free cutesy little shooters, had when games such as Counterstrike, half life, and all manner of other shooters were available. The fact that it is free, and community driven means that Spring has something completely different to offer from SupCom. They aren't in competition; if they were, SupCom would win, simply because it is a professionally (well-)made game. However, in my mind, they are not at all in competition.
SwiftSpear: I don't see why people think Spring needs to 'compete' with SupCom at all. They are completely different things. I mean, consider the popularity that Soldat or liero, the free cutesy little shooters, had when games such as Counterstrike, half life, and all manner of other shooters were available. The fact that it is free, and community driven means that Spring has something completely different to offer from SupCom. They aren't in competition; if they were, SupCom would win, simply because it is a professionally (well-)made game. However, in my mind, they are not at all in competition.