Expand & Exterminate .155 Released!

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:11

Andreask wrote:Bruce, drone, the exact opposite is the truth as i stated before.

You can just spam 30 plasma light mechs, and kill anything in your path, scince there is no anti-swarm unit, and no defence is strong enough to stop them. Your commander can only run away.

A few level 2 units you might have by that point wont stop them either.

Mines? Not string enough.

They just mow you down, and there is nothig you can do, they even kill air units.

There is no anti-swarm weapon.

Yes, you could say now that one must attack earlier to prevent the building of a swarm.

But the simple fact is, that most games are team games, and in team games there is always one opponent that gets ignored for the first half of the game, and if only one player can build a swarm of anything, he will win.

There is no unit or turret against a swarm, the mix doesnt help, it just dies.
There should be some kind of swarm defense turret. In other mods, your commander is swarm defense, and its also the commander there that makes it neccessary to go to level 2 in most cases.

E&E doesnt have this neccessity, the swarm owns all.

Modify one of the level 1 turrtes as long range anti-swarm or something, but the way it is now, level 1 swarm owns all.

That is quite different from the other mods, but it gets tedious none the less.

This was my experinace too... however the point must be made that EE is pretty much a solid swarm vs swarm mod. This isn't TA where you can micro your HP blob infront of some stationary defences and own and endless swarm of peewees. If you want to succeed in EE you need to have a large and effective mobile military force to counter your opponents large mobile military force.

Put an "anti swarm" unit in and all of a sudden the focus shifts from what it currently is to a swarm/antiswarm paper rock scissors game. While that wouldn't nessicarly be a bad thing not everyone wants that.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:17

Also, level one defences need a boost. You can't hold any ground unless you rush level 2 or 3. I mean, The level 1 plasma cannon defence is an inuslt. It can't kill anything in anything other than a 1 v 1 and Its armour is pathetic...

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:18

SwiftSpear wrote:If you want to succeed in EE you need to have a large and effective mobile military force to counter your opponents large mobile military force.

Add to that the fact that you lose once you get pushed back even a little bit, becuase of the econ system, and its obvious that E&E is all about the first ten minutes of the game right now.

Thats a good thing and a nice change of pace, yet, it cuts variety from the mod. Many units are just superflous right now, as are many tactics.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:18

TradeMark wrote:Those light plasma turrets should have more health, at least two times more than one light plasma mech.

Actually, every defending structures should have more health.

Woops. Did;t realise you'd posted that :D

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:20

The way to solve all problems about resourcing in EE is to add metal refineries. Ie, Metal makers.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:21

I think thats not an option right now.

Mentioned:

- Stronger Defense
- More generated metal (commander is the only generator right now)
- Some weapon for the commander, so it doesnt die to marshmellows
- Weaker Swarm
- Cheaper Tech 2
- Correction of Air and Artillery Effectiveness

Time for a changelog !

Fang, you said, that if you build many of one unit, you will eventually kill anything thrown at you. That is true, sadly, this is the only tactic seen in E&E games right now.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:52

No, dont add metal makers, they spoils every mod.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:52

call the metla makers Metal refineries. That way you can claim its not making metal, Simply Refining the MEtal you already have.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:54

TradeMark wrote:No, dont add metal makers, they spoils every mod.

At the moment if you lose one mex you will fail, Because:
you have less metal = Less attacking to get that ground back = Less defences = more mexxes lost. Its what ruined FF.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 29 Apr 2006, 16:35

Indeed, there are no metal makers, so you need to Expand.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 16:56

But if you lose even 1 mex of your expansion, you ae doomed.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 29 Apr 2006, 16:57

Zenka wrote:Indeed, there are no metal makers, so you need to Expand.

I guess you did not read the previous posts.

The fact that you can not porc, turrets are wothless, every metal-spot you dont use will be a nail in your coffin, your commander is helpless, and that level 2 econ is expensive and a major leap compared to level one creates a singular style of gameplay, which is the level one swarm rush.

All games i played today were lvl 1 rush games, there is just no room for lvl 2 or even lvl 3, or games longer than 30 minutes in this mod right now.

The fact that every matel spot counts and turrets are even out-ranged and gunned by lvl 1 units makes for a gameplay that decides the victor during the first minutes of the game, since you can NOT by all means, retreat.

If you do, u lose. Seeing as most games are team games, two players just send their comined forces at one player, that can happen after the first few units are built already, and that player WILL go down, he has no chance.

He just cant defend his territory. After that, his team-mates will have either done the same to the opposing team at the same time, or the game will be decided in favor of the first team.

If metal makers and a stronger comm are not an option, at least we need a buff to the turrtes, so that holding these precious spots gets easier. The artillery will take care of them soon enough anyway. I mean, hey, there is even level 1 mobile artilley.

This mod just plays with level 1 units, all other tiers are mostly useless, right now.

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 29 Apr 2006, 17:00

This mod has such beatiful artwork, all units and structure are so nicely detailed and animated, new sounds, new concepts of units, like the awesome lvl 1 missile bots. (yep they are still awesome)

I would really like to see this mod become a real competitor of AA, and see more of these gorgeous models, but the current gameplay just spoils the fun.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 17:29

I agree with andreask. Make defneces better for the love of god.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:00

Also, level 1 cons make a pretty amount of metal that can be exploited. Pepole that build loads of them get's free extra metal and can raise any building super quick.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:01

Kixxe wrote:Also, level 1 cons make a pretty amount of metal that can be exploited. Pepole that build loads of them get's free extra metal and can raise any building super quick.

Yes.

But don;t nerf them unless you plan to add metal makers.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:09

Andreask wrote:I guess you did not read the previous posts.

My bad, but since there was reached an comclusion already, why still concider metal makers?

anyway, The commander has a load of HP. Which is good, it should die easily. But your combat units always target the enemy commander if in range, ignoring everything else. And since the commander is such a dangerous object (having no weapons and all), the auto target is very annoying. You can use your comm to suck all damage towards him and save your other units.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:09

lvl 1 con resource ouput is being handled, the next release (whenever that is) will also remove teh NI as a choice, AA will be boosted a bit as well and possibly some other stuff. Fang has explicitly said that there will be no metal makers. However some solution about them may be reached soon.

EDIT: not sure if the auto targeting is a spring thing that can't be fixed. if it is then sry nothing we can do, if we can do something about it ill mention it to fang.

nfekti0n · Post by **nfekti0n** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:16

It's things like this that contribute to why I (the average player) haven't even considered seriously playing it. I'll probably check on it when it's in its 1.0s and all these newb bugs are worked out.

For the win?!

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 29 Apr 2006, 18:23

nfekti0n thats kind of a dismal attitude. Why don't you at least play a few games then u can at least be a bit more constructive.

i mean just going (warning rough summary!!), "its got some balance issues!! i can't and won't play that till they are fixed," doesn't help us fix it and just discourages Fang from workin on it, whether you meant to or not. He has put a lot of time into this mod and having someone blanket disregard it sans play time is frustrating

Spring RTS Engine

Expand & Exterminate .155 Released!