How to represent fog of war?

AF · Post by AF » 31 Mar 2005, 21:28

yuk yuk yuk I never intended my line to look like that it just looks icky

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 31 Mar 2005, 21:28

On limiting cammera movement, hasn't anyone noticed this would make the game impossible. Example:

Ohhhh! I've got 20 bombers! Lets send them over to the enamy base! DOH!! I dont have line of sight on it, I cant target it! NOOOOOOO! I'll have to use the mini map, but wait... I wont know what it is im targeting!!! Doh!

If you just had a dither or fog you would be able to much more accuratly start attacks... limiting the movement would ruin the game play.

aGorm

AF · Post by AF » 31 Mar 2005, 21:56

Yah but it'd be useful for GW type games. And what abot whne were planning an ofensive march to the base, we wont know what route to take till we've already taken it!

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 31 Mar 2005, 22:31

Alantai Firestar wrote:yuk yuk yuk I never intended my line to look like that it just looks icky

I did say it was exagerated! but that is basicly what you ment only more discreet yes? its a bit fudged aswell casue i could not be arsed to make it look super good, and it is 2d on a 3d pic (well it is a little 3d...)

aGorm

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 31 Mar 2005, 23:35

Zoombies idea is quite good, i really think it would work well.

Edit to restate his fantastic idea:

Everything your units see, you can see with the camera. Once you move the camera out of your unit's los, you start to see static, until you really can't see anything through the static.

However, Radar removes the static, lets you see the map..and team colored dots/some sort of icon where the radar has detected an enemy.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Apr 2005, 00:10

No I ment a thick but translucent line that followed the edge of LOS that was dashed and white in colour. Your line is not white at all and it isnt dashed and it just looks messy, not a good representation of my idea at all. Try to make it follow with depth and perspective more if you do a remake.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 01 Apr 2005, 00:27

Now i get what you mean... mine was based on my idea of what you siad... totaly different...

aGorm

sparkyhodgo · Post by **sparkyhodgo** » 01 Apr 2005, 04:03

For me the issue isn't so much fog of war, as unexplored mapping. The current Spring system where units apear out of nowhere seems adequate (although it would be nice to know where my LOS ends). But I want to know what the map will look like before I explore it.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 01 Apr 2005, 04:16

Aye, i agree, which is why i like zoombie's idea so much...radar reveals the map and the dot of an enemy unit, but you have to go explore to see what it actually is.

I think this system would work very well, and be a lot of fun...not to mention doubling the importance and stratigic value of radar towers.

Honestly, i don't want to always see a zillion little lines showing where the LOS of my units is. maybe if i have a toggle command for just one unit, or a group of units.

Edit: in response to agorm on limiting camera movement.

Ohhhh! I've got 20 bombers! Lets send them over to the enamy base! DOH!! I dont have line of sight on it, I cant target it! NOOOOOOO! I'll have to use the mini map, but wait... I wont know what it is im targeting!!! Doh!

Have you not played OTA? you don't know what you're targeting anyways, unless you scout that area. And you don't see anything there (on the minimap) unless you have radar coverage.

What zoombie suggests only limits the camera view from a unit perspective...ie, you can't go scouting with the camera only. Of course you could raise the camera to see the entire map, but you only see (non-blacked out) the parts you have radar coverage of, or have explored.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Apr 2005, 04:30

No I dont mean each unit would have a circle around it fo LOS, I mean a single line representing the edge of what can and cannot be seen

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 01 Apr 2005, 04:57

Also id like to say, due to the wreaking guilt im suffering, i didint think up that LOS idea. It was introduced into the gameing world by a little known game called Macheins

AF · Post by AF » 01 Apr 2005, 05:07

HAHA my line idea was original and its the only original one there!!!!!!!

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:15

Nice work aGorm, the dithering looks best in my opinion, perhaps we could have an option to switch between line, dither, both and none, seeing as those are the easiest to implement by the looks of it, and the clearest and least game limiting.

Also, the static idea in machines was cool, but you didn't have long range artillery or TA style bombers to use either, so it just wouldn't be acceptable.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:57

i think it would, because you could move the camera where radar coverage was present...how often do you bomb or shoot artillary at something you can't see on radar and didn't spot with a unit?

atlantai: oh, that makes more sense, would there be a line for radar as well? your idea is basically what's in place now, with the addition of lines to indicate where your los is.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:01

Well as the aswom JMS (creator of Babylon 5 the greatest Scifi TV show ever. Period) said "Good writers steal, bad writers borrow" so yes i stole it, but the idea fits in with TA's style perfectly. Think about it eh?

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 01 Apr 2005, 10:02

The problems outlined with my idea are similar problems that occur in Zoombie's idea.

In TA, one has to be able to see the map in its entirety, even if you cannot see units there.
You have to issue orders, ranging from simple things like issuing movement orders (which requires vision of the ground, so that you can see obstructing features, which may not be conveyed by the minimap), to advanced orders like building ques for construction units.
The minimap simply isn't detailed enough for the complex orders that are often given on zones that lie outside regular LOS in TA.

Cheesecan · Post by **Cheesecan** » 01 Apr 2005, 20:21

Since the thread seems to be split between the two camps of dithering and lines, why not just make both possible? just set it via options panel and no tears wept.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 01 Apr 2005, 20:44

I voted for a dotted line... I don't think it would be 3d like he has it... probably just a line along the edge of your viewing area.

However, I would like a fog option... because they can hide things in the fog. So areas people NEVER go to would be fogged out and then not rendered... saving resources on the machines. This would also help hide the edges of levels because you can never de-fog the edge of the level.

Agorm... get off the high horse.. noone cares that you were one of the first posters here... that is all "luck of the draw" stuff. I hate forum elite-ism.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Apr 2005, 21:14

Oh theres plenty of forum elitists here. I got 400+ posts look at me wahooooo yipeeeeeeee hehehehehehehehehehehehhhe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 01 Apr 2005, 21:38

I don't really see you as a forum eliteist.

Just someone I chat with on this forum. Although 400+ wow!

Spring RTS Engine

How to represent fog of war?

What visual effect should represent fog of war?