How to represent fog of war?

Gabba · Post by **Gabba** » 30 Mar 2005, 21:01

Personally I don't like fog effects or dithering, because they prevent you from admiring the map. In TA you had beautiful and colorful user-made maps, but with dithering on all you would see was grey, because the map was huge and you didn't have units everywhere.

Also, dithering obscured the minimap, and with crystal maps it was a big problem, because you couldn't see well where was the water/land, making manoeuvers impossible.

When you vote, I also suggest you take into account the development time. The more fancy the visual effect, the more work it takes, of course.

This said, express your opinion!

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 30 Mar 2005, 22:20

I'm saying a dotted line of your colour... Plus units should fad in as they cross but very quickly. Also, buildings should stay visible just like in TA but they should have your colour overlaying them so you know that you can't actully see them, but that they were there last time you checked.

aGorm

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 30 Mar 2005, 22:22

a visual fog effect is the best option

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 30 Mar 2005, 22:26

Yes, but it will take 1) Time
and 2) Vast computer resorces.

I would love it to be an option but not in the first release and i would like it to not compleatly obscure the treain and I would still like the outlines of your area aswell. Obviosly the fog would negate the fading in though.

aGorm

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 30 Mar 2005, 22:40

wtf iswrong with u, nearly all other 3d, in fact all, 3d rts' use option 1) and all of them run very well on my pc, which is a higher mid range pc.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 30 Mar 2005, 22:54

What?!??!?! Real Volumetric fog (IE good looking fog) Is only found in decent FPS not in RTS's. And If it is its one of the options you can turn off. Name these games and I bet it aint real fog. Besides befor the phpBBB an SY comented on the fact that real fog would be dificult to add at the moment and would slow the game down like hell.

So There.

And there Is nothing the F*** wrong with me. I just so happen to have been reading these posts since the begin of time, infact i read the first post ever only an hour after it was posted, so dont get on a high horse with me.

Upstart New comer.

And Will Riker ruined thunderbirds... How could you comit such a travasty? My childhood dreams shartered...

And quit with the language, wtf is just as bad a realy typing it, and it pisses lots of people off no end. This is ment to be a friendly discussion bord, not somewhere to place your basic grasp of english.

And while im here will you quit posting so much? I mean... you type hundreds of short posts when you could easly have saved everyone time with just one slightly more detailed one.

Look what your making me do...

aGorm

p.s I've had a bad day... scummy British rail...

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 30 Mar 2005, 23:04

i mean simple pixel fog (like in empire earth)

not volumetric

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 30 Mar 2005, 23:11

Sorry, you are forgiven... but pixle fog just looks lame. Well Ok, its alright but I was kindin in the mind set of the game would look very real, and pixle fog would spoil it, where as colored outlins would just look like a heads ups overlaying your view, like in a fighter jet.

Sorry about ranting on at you just now aswell, my agression is over.

I suppose the public will decide...

aGorm

AF · Post by AF » 31 Mar 2005, 02:26

Aha, well I must admit I was tired fo great monologues between e and riker. Though I say go for volumetric fog btu also have the line idea of mine for those who cant handle the fog.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 31 Mar 2005, 06:43

How about an idea im... borrowing from a little know/cared about game called Machiens, whitch had three cool things. one, you can take control your units in first person (like in TA: Spring cool eh! i dont even need to sugest it) Well wait, it is two cool things. The secont cool thing is their is no fog of war, Insted when you move your away from where your units have explored, the camera statics out like you hit some interfecrence. Then the skreen is uninteligable static until you move back into the LOS of your units. Of course, the Mini map would help in the getting back into a covered area. Now Radar would negate the static by haveing blips on the map area. Cool eh? No wait. I LOVE the idea so much i DEMAND it is in the game! I will not be stoped! You will not hinder my revolution!

Archangel of Death · Post by **Archangel of Death** » 31 Mar 2005, 09:18

Darn... I (think I) brought up dithering and almost no one likes it... And I'm sure they could do something to help with the dithering affecting the mini-map. Now that gives me an idea. Dithering on the main map, but dotted lines with your color on the mini-map.

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 31 Mar 2005, 10:16

It would be nice to see them as options that you could flick between at the press of a key.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 31 Mar 2005, 10:19

Euch, anyone else here think this forum is being taken over by schmucks?

Anyway, I'd like to see fog reserved for a weather effect (figures

) rather than for LOS.

Another method for showing fog of war is to actually limit the camera to where your units can see.
This worked very succesfully in the Total War series.

It basically means that you are allowed to maneuvre your camera to the absolute extremity of the LOS vision of your units. Whatever you see passed that you are welcome too; but given perspective and horizon limitations, it won't be all that much.
It means that the minimap must be used much more for giving orders, and to get to units who are not linked by consistent LOS, you have to use the "FOCUS CAMERA ON THIS UNIT" button to jump the camera to that LOS 'island'.

If that is a bit too different for everyone, then my vote is for the dithered effect. It doesn't ruin the rendered map, it just lets you know what can be seen, and what can't be seen.

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 31 Mar 2005, 11:29

Voted "other (please detail)" and will now detail:

On this one, my personal opinion for now, is letting the dudes make it whatever way they want it to.

At least until they release it and and i notice it works/looks badly...

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 31 Mar 2005, 11:37

After looking at the screen shots, i think a "+showranges" style would be best, but maybe not a line but a 1/2 peewee high coloured band?

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 31 Mar 2005, 13:34

I think some pics of what peopel mean are in order ill do some later. Then everyone will see what each thing means.

aGorm

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 31 Mar 2005, 14:32

Zoombies idea R0CKS! IT OWNS ANY OTHER IDEA! please put it in! it would be legendary and improve a already obscenely cool game :D

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 31 Mar 2005, 14:40

iam not sure, it might get a bit annoying, although i think its a good idea

AF · Post by AF » 31 Mar 2005, 20:14

How about the LOS line and then as you get further past the line the units and terrain are blurred untill a screen away they're so blurry all you can make out is the general height and colour of the terrain.

Also I dont like the idea of camera restrictions but I agree that fog should now be reserved for weather effects since I hadnt thought of that.

The line is a must at least as an option and so is camera movement restriction and real fog, but only as options.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 31 Mar 2005, 21:23

Ok, here are some picys...

Dithering

Line

Real Fog

There a bit exagerated (especialy the line one...) but you should get the jist.
And yes the fog would look cool, but I think it should be saved for weather... And dithering looks a bit plane, while I know some people will hate the line...

:D

aGorm

//Edit// Yes i forgot to dither the mini map, but its so small i hoped you would not notice...

Spring RTS Engine

How to represent fog of war?

What visual effect should represent fog of war?

How to represent fog of war?