As I said before the user would have a limited amount of emergency pause which means they cant just pause and get that because
A: They'd run out quickly unless they played laodsa games to save up time.
B: Instead of people seeing "pause" they'd see "emergency pause by:" then person who used it
Chosing spawn points.
Moderator: Moderators
Sort of like RoN's "Cannon Time"? I've never used it, but I think I understand the principle behind it.
Basically, each player has a reserve of Cannon Time (which is a play on bullet-time ala matrix) which allows him to reduce the game speed to, in this example, about -5 or so. Each player has this fixed amount starting at the beginning of the game, as determined by the server. For instance, 1:00. They can use :20 of it when they're being attacked really hard and need to queue up a bunch of stuff while also managing a battle, then save the rest for later by hitting the Cannon Time button a second time.
Sounds like a good idea, and wouldn't be too easily abused. My only concern would be over player connectivity - we've all seen what can happen when someone changes the game speed too often.
Basically, each player has a reserve of Cannon Time (which is a play on bullet-time ala matrix) which allows him to reduce the game speed to, in this example, about -5 or so. Each player has this fixed amount starting at the beginning of the game, as determined by the server. For instance, 1:00. They can use :20 of it when they're being attacked really hard and need to queue up a bunch of stuff while also managing a battle, then save the rest for later by hitting the Cannon Time button a second time.
Sounds like a good idea, and wouldn't be too easily abused. My only concern would be over player connectivity - we've all seen what can happen when someone changes the game speed too often.
Are you sure we're talking about the same game? In my Total Annihilation, I can select units, move around, make complex build order queue, and everything else while the game is paused.Doomweaver wrote:i hate the way in TA while the game is paused, you can't move around the screen or make build/complex orders.
Or select new units.
You should be able to, after all its a game of strategy, not clicking speed (cough, warcraft III sucks, cough)
The only thing that doesn't work very well is that changing the settings like Fire At Will / Return Fire / Hold fire, like Roaming / Stay Here / Roam but not too far, On / Off, etc... that kind of stuff when you change it in pause it takes effect only the game is unpaused. Oh and ok, sometimes the moving around doesn't work in pause, but in that cause I just move with the radar minimap or unpause, move the screen, repause.
Would you please stop with the overcomplex pause system? We don't need vote, individual pause gauge, beeping pause countdown, and other insanity. Keep it simple, like it is in OTA. And pause isn't something you use to react better to event ingames, it's something you use when real life interrupt your game. For instance, I play someone, and suddendly he pause and hastily type "sry gtg parents", 30s later he types "back" and he or I unpause. Since we can still type when the game is paused, in all the game I saw the pause wasn't abused and people just asked around before resuming from a long pause. We don't want the pause to lock the game for everyone involved, because in a 10 player FFA, if one player suddendly pause and leave without explanation maybe the 9 other will want to continue after 30mins of pause, no matter if the one who left die. We don't want limited pause time, because sometimes in a 1v1 someone need to go for a few minutes, in that case I simply alt tab out of TA and do something else while he comes. In all the games I played, I never saw pause abuse. Hmm, oh well that post is long enough, the idea is: don't impose obscure and complex system, keep it simple and functionnal, and trust the players into using it according to the situation.
ok zwzsg.... you seem nto to ahve read the whole thread. And I suspect the same is off th eother so i will mesh the lotta it into a single post
2 types of pause, ordinary pause and emergency pause.
Ordinary pause:
User preses pause, and we vote on a game pause, if you dont vote within 15 secs then you dont take part simple as. After 1 minute the other players are given a voting option as to wether they unpause without the original pauser beign present. If an overral majority is given thent he game unpauses and carries on without the original pauser. Allied players all share the same vote. When unpause happens a countdown from 5 occurs thent he game unpauses.
Emergency Pause:
Player issues emergency pause and game immediatly freezes. Players have a limited amoutn fo emergency time that carries over through each game they play. When a player looses they have an option to give extra emergency time to the winner if they think they played fairly, lets say 20 secs to 40secs of emergency pause. Emergency pause runs out after time and when it does so the game starts the 5 sec countdown again and unpauses.
When paused:
There are no GUI controls save resources and the console. You can move about but the camera is restricted to 2/3 LOS. You cannot issue commands or build queues. The game screen shows PAUSED ro EMERGENCY PAUSED with a timer showing how long the game has gone on for and hwo long it has been paused aswell as who paused it.
That is what I proposed, anythign mroe is unnecesary I beleive that to solve the problem of pause abuse and I think that pregame the players should be able to set pause to old OTA style if they wish against th voting system, or a setting in the game that Auto votes yes to every pause vote asked if checked.
2 types of pause, ordinary pause and emergency pause.
Ordinary pause:
User preses pause, and we vote on a game pause, if you dont vote within 15 secs then you dont take part simple as. After 1 minute the other players are given a voting option as to wether they unpause without the original pauser beign present. If an overral majority is given thent he game unpauses and carries on without the original pauser. Allied players all share the same vote. When unpause happens a countdown from 5 occurs thent he game unpauses.
Emergency Pause:
Player issues emergency pause and game immediatly freezes. Players have a limited amoutn fo emergency time that carries over through each game they play. When a player looses they have an option to give extra emergency time to the winner if they think they played fairly, lets say 20 secs to 40secs of emergency pause. Emergency pause runs out after time and when it does so the game starts the 5 sec countdown again and unpauses.
When paused:
There are no GUI controls save resources and the console. You can move about but the camera is restricted to 2/3 LOS. You cannot issue commands or build queues. The game screen shows PAUSED ro EMERGENCY PAUSED with a timer showing how long the game has gone on for and hwo long it has been paused aswell as who paused it.
That is what I proposed, anythign mroe is unnecesary I beleive that to solve the problem of pause abuse and I think that pregame the players should be able to set pause to old OTA style if they wish against th voting system, or a setting in the game that Auto votes yes to every pause vote asked if checked.
FYI: I had read the other posts.
Plus it enforces lots of time limit that you just made up, lots of nonsensical rules (like the one where the loser give "pause time" to the winner). And, most importantly, it's not adapted at all at how pause are used in practical.
They are two uses of pause in TA:
- Single player: when overhelmed by the AI, or in tricky situation, it's handy to pause the game to give order in the calm.
- Multi player: when one player has an urgent need to piss, to feed the dog, or whatever, it helps to pause the game and type a few words of explanation, and come back after an undermined time to unpause the game, after checking the others are stilll here. Yep other will use the opportunity to check a few order queue and look around, so what? It's not like it's something that'll change the tide of war.
PAUSE ISN'T SOME SORT OF BULLET TIME BONUS.
I would hate a game where using the pause in multiplayer to sort tricky situation is encouraged. Using the pause to gain an edge isn't supposed to be part of gameplay in multi. I played around 400 multiplayer game of TA, not to mention many other multi-games. Never ever I saw someone abusing the pause to get out of tricky attack. The only time fiddling stuff I saw where were a few newb setting the speed to +10, but the SY .synchon 0 0 take care of that, and people have legitimate interruption by real life, but always with enough communication so no player was AFK when game resumed.
I say make the pause work like:
- Pressing the pause key display a small message "Game paused by playername" and pause the game for every player. A large "pause" is writtten somewhere on the screen. All the interface works, you can move around, give orders, talk, etc..., just units are freezed.
- When the game is in pause mode, if any player press the pause key, the game immediatly resume.
Yes, it's the OTA pause.
All this is really over complex. It would confuse the user, it would add works for the SY, and it's not even possible! (For the part where pause time is carried from game to game, and for the part where the engine determine that a player is losing and blah blah).Alantai Firestar wrote:2 types of pause, ordinary pause and emergency pause.
....vote.... if you dont vote within 15 secs .... After 1 minute .... overral majority ....countdown from 5 ....
..... Players have a limited amount fo emergency time .... when a player looses they have an option to give extra emergency time ..... lets say 20 secs to 40secs of emergency pause..... pause runs out after time .... 5 sec countdown again .
.... camera is restricted to 2/3 LOS.....
... anythign mroe is unnecesary .... pause abuse ... Auto votes yes to every pause ....
Plus it enforces lots of time limit that you just made up, lots of nonsensical rules (like the one where the loser give "pause time" to the winner). And, most importantly, it's not adapted at all at how pause are used in practical.
They are two uses of pause in TA:
- Single player: when overhelmed by the AI, or in tricky situation, it's handy to pause the game to give order in the calm.
- Multi player: when one player has an urgent need to piss, to feed the dog, or whatever, it helps to pause the game and type a few words of explanation, and come back after an undermined time to unpause the game, after checking the others are stilll here. Yep other will use the opportunity to check a few order queue and look around, so what? It's not like it's something that'll change the tide of war.
PAUSE ISN'T SOME SORT OF BULLET TIME BONUS.
I would hate a game where using the pause in multiplayer to sort tricky situation is encouraged. Using the pause to gain an edge isn't supposed to be part of gameplay in multi. I played around 400 multiplayer game of TA, not to mention many other multi-games. Never ever I saw someone abusing the pause to get out of tricky attack. The only time fiddling stuff I saw where were a few newb setting the speed to +10, but the SY .synchon 0 0 take care of that, and people have legitimate interruption by real life, but always with enough communication so no player was AFK when game resumed.
I say make the pause work like:
- Pressing the pause key display a small message "Game paused by playername" and pause the game for every player. A large "pause" is writtten somewhere on the screen. All the interface works, you can move around, give orders, talk, etc..., just units are freezed.
- When the game is in pause mode, if any player press the pause key, the game immediatly resume.
Yes, it's the OTA pause.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
Ok we get the point btu I at least needed to summarise.
Besides you did go wrong a few times, the engine knwos when a player si loosing because they ahve no units or buildings left to fight with hence the player has lost. And the values could be tracked by use of an external server or internally in the game though that might give rise to unsightly cheating. And yah maybe ti isnt so well known for you in OTA. But you mst remember that this is an engine not a game we're talkign about and there are people who abuse pause wether you've met them or not and you do realise that all this time I've been saying the user should be allowed to turn this off havent you? If I'm not mistaken you just seem to ahve gone all territorial and overprotective lol
And if you didnt notice soem fo thsoe parts were not todo with trickery, such as the 5 sec countdown, oht he game spaused I'll go get somehtign quickly, oh no they unpaused before I could get back suddenly turns into let me just get that oh shit the countdowns going.
And if Pause was a bullet time bonus I would ahve onyl specified emergency pause and I would have added a laoda complex rules ontop of whats already there.
And infuture I suggest you paste in the WHOLE sentence or quote the entire post highlighting in a different colour where your main points are I will not tolerate blatant propagandist psychological trickery to make things appear in your favour and thus unfairly bias the community, it is unneeeded and says a lot on your behalf
Ok so in light of the huge uprise against the pause system that was suggested by the many peoples whos hare the name zwzsg I proclaim a revision.
Person pauses.
Users see PAUSE with username who paused it
Only the pauser can unpause HOWEVER
Everyone else can vote to unpause the game if the pausers takign the p*** is abusing the pause or has been gone for an absurd amount of time
When unpausing, a 5 second countdown shows with an appropriate sound.
Allies share a single vote between them
And if people do decide to do the unthinkable abuse the pause button perhaps if backed by popular demand there should be a system whereby the players can vote to revoke another players rights to pause the game after unpausing. But I think that any such call for this feature would be blocked by the many thousands of protesters (all named zwzsg) who hate such an idea and beleive abuse simply doesnt happen. So I will leave it to the peoples of Spring to decide after a bout of playign Spring once it's released to decide upon that.
Also IMO users should nto eb able to queue up things and issue orders while paused unless they all agree on it before the game starts.
Besides you did go wrong a few times, the engine knwos when a player si loosing because they ahve no units or buildings left to fight with hence the player has lost. And the values could be tracked by use of an external server or internally in the game though that might give rise to unsightly cheating. And yah maybe ti isnt so well known for you in OTA. But you mst remember that this is an engine not a game we're talkign about and there are people who abuse pause wether you've met them or not and you do realise that all this time I've been saying the user should be allowed to turn this off havent you? If I'm not mistaken you just seem to ahve gone all territorial and overprotective lol
And if you didnt notice soem fo thsoe parts were not todo with trickery, such as the 5 sec countdown, oht he game spaused I'll go get somehtign quickly, oh no they unpaused before I could get back suddenly turns into let me just get that oh shit the countdowns going.
And if Pause was a bullet time bonus I would ahve onyl specified emergency pause and I would have added a laoda complex rules ontop of whats already there.
And infuture I suggest you paste in the WHOLE sentence or quote the entire post highlighting in a different colour where your main points are I will not tolerate blatant propagandist psychological trickery to make things appear in your favour and thus unfairly bias the community, it is unneeeded and says a lot on your behalf
Ok so in light of the huge uprise against the pause system that was suggested by the many peoples whos hare the name zwzsg I proclaim a revision.
Person pauses.
Users see PAUSE with username who paused it
Only the pauser can unpause HOWEVER
Everyone else can vote to unpause the game if the pausers takign the p*** is abusing the pause or has been gone for an absurd amount of time
When unpausing, a 5 second countdown shows with an appropriate sound.
Allies share a single vote between them
And if people do decide to do the unthinkable abuse the pause button perhaps if backed by popular demand there should be a system whereby the players can vote to revoke another players rights to pause the game after unpausing. But I think that any such call for this feature would be blocked by the many thousands of protesters (all named zwzsg) who hate such an idea and beleive abuse simply doesnt happen. So I will leave it to the peoples of Spring to decide after a bout of playign Spring once it's released to decide upon that.
Also IMO users should nto eb able to queue up things and issue orders while paused unless they all agree on it before the game starts.
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maverick256
- Posts: 115
- Joined: 21 Sep 2004, 19:41
I agree with zwzsg. Use the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid. OTA's pausing system works well enough, why change something that already works? Trust the players to use common sense. If in the future enough players demand it, then sure, SY can put it in.
On a not-so-related note,
Alantai Firestar, I'm really sorry to say this, but it's a little hard to read your posts sometimes... It's ok when the post is short, but when the posts get long, it's a little painful. No offense meant, but just what I noticed.
On a not-so-related note,
Alantai Firestar, I'm really sorry to say this, but it's a little hard to read your posts sometimes... It's ok when the post is short, but when the posts get long, it's a little painful. No offense meant, but just what I noticed.
lol Point taken, at least you put it nicely. I still think that some form of system should be there even if it's optional so let me rephrase it againf or all fo those who cba reading the huge post
Person buggers off for a while and the rest dont wanna wait for the loo to finish anytime soon. So Players vote to unpause. Allies share 1 vote. Now that isnt too complex is it? And you'd only really need it for larger games sicne in a 1v1 or 1v1v1 it sorta becomes obsolete
And 5 sec countdown should be an option deffinately, stress the word option for those of you
Person buggers off for a while and the rest dont wanna wait for the loo to finish anytime soon. So Players vote to unpause. Allies share 1 vote. Now that isnt too complex is it? And you'd only really need it for larger games sicne in a 1v1 or 1v1v1 it sorta becomes obsolete
And 5 sec countdown should be an option deffinately, stress the word option for those of you
Yes, but a problem with that: Say you realy pissin of the guy your playing (not as in callin him names and such...as in kickin his ass). Suddenly you realy need to use the smalest room in the house (read: you need the loo...) So you say hold up mate brb and pause. You get back from the loo to find the game unpause and your base in ruins and hence lose the match.A summary of zwzsg's post...
You press pause, the game pauses, there is no need for anything more complex.
Or, if the only person that can unpause is the pauser...
You playing a good game with 7 of your mates and suddenly one says hold on, loo! 2 hours latter he still aint back and you cant unpause the game...
So basicly to make it fair the only way to do pause is to have some sort of time restriction. It could however be simply, at the beging just befor you start the game... everyone sets the pause time, then when someone does leave for ages it will start back up again after the pre agreed time. That sounds plausable. And doable. can we have it like that?
aGorm
In my last idea, I ment that If you pause the game, only you should be able to unpause it, but everyone would have agreed to a pree agreed time limet. At anytime people can click unpause. But i wont unpause either "till the person that paused gets back and clicks it", or "till everyone but the pauser clicks it and the time is up". Its the only fair way and if he gave a good reason to be longer a nice person can leave the hold on longer. But noone can make the game hold indefinatly... (2 people could if they worked in tandom however... but then youd never play with them again so no worries...)
aGorm
aGorm
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
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maverick256
- Posts: 115
- Joined: 21 Sep 2004, 19:41
The original TA pausing system allows anyone to unpause the game. If someone unpaused the game when others think it's unfair, anyone can pause it again. If people weren't happy about a particular player constantly pausing/unpausing the game, they can start another game without that player. Simple as that. I think we should wait on players' feedback on this matter before making any changes to the original system.
Oh, and AF (I hope I can call you that), maybe SY can implement a spell checker into phpBB (I've seen other phpBB forums do that), so you can have typo-free posts
It's really the typos that can make it hard and slow to read, you know what I mean?
Oh, and AF (I hope I can call you that), maybe SY can implement a spell checker into phpBB (I've seen other phpBB forums do that), so you can have typo-free posts
It's really the typos that can make it hard and slow to read, you know what I mean?-
Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59