UPDATE... Map Completed ... call 2B4-Core-Proto-Planet ...

[genblood]

AF,

What do you mean by symetry convention? The features
are made in Autodesk Max 8 and converted to a .obj and
then converted to a 3do file in Upspring 1.2 and I textured it
in 3dobuilder. It most likely NOT .. the best way to do it ... but
I'm trying

I'll try to make the next map with features in the new
format as soon as I learn how to texture a object and
use Upspring properly ...

Also, the light towers are a few polys over 1,000 ...
The last screenie of something that looks like a alien tower
with sphere around it . Has a poly count of 10,031 .....

It took time to texture that bad boy ....

I figure in time I'll learn how to make things look pretty ,
without all the polys ..... On'y time will tell ....

[genblood]

Mother ,


I'll take a stack of pancakes and hold the rabbits ...
I prefer a side order of home fries instead ....

[SwiftSpear]

AF,

What do you mean by symetry convention? The features
are made in Autodesk Max 8 and converted to a .obj and
then converted to a 3do file in Upspring 1.2 and I textured it
in 3dobuilder. It most likely NOT .. the best way to do it ... but
I'm trying

I'll try to make the next map with features in the new
format as soon as I learn how to texture a object and
use Upspring properly ...

Also, the light towers are a few polys over 1,000 ...
The last screenie of something that looks like a alien tower
with sphere around it . Has a poly count of 10,031 .....

It took time to texture that bad boy ....

I figure in time I'll learn how to make things look pretty ,
without all the polys ..... On'y time will tell ....

Haha, you put 2 of those alien tower things on screen and you've got a conservitive HL2 scene polycount. Not to mention 3dos eat resources for breakfast in high poly. I'm not going to even be able to run your map without turning off shadows and reflections. One feature = 50 high poly TA units.

You would have HL2 modelers barking at you if you presented them with a world model over 2000 polies. Jump on IRC some time and we'll talk a little modeling theory.

[smoth]

Genblood I am going to be honest with you. While I am DYING for some urban maps this is really in need of more work. I am the last person you would typically hear bitching about poly count but those models are really too high on the poly count.

I am not disrespecting your work but you need to spend more time on those models. To be frank they remind me of the 60-70s and the surrealistic nightmare there-in. It is really because the curves are over used. The light post for example could have 8 sides and still look damn fine. These are critiques and in no way insults. I am trying to help you.

If you consider that there are alot of people who play without shadows or complex shaders, I implore you to run this map without all that and you will see that the features will simply be dull and uninteresting. Partly because your texture is very plain and lacks shadow also.

I really think that if you do some concept art and then model it out after completely thinking out the concept you WILL be surprised at what you will do. However, at the moment this really shows you are very inexperienced at modeling. I by no means want to make you feel bad but you should spend some more time on the models. I say this in all honesty because I want to se more urban maps but this one will need alot more work.

At the moment it looks very much like hack art. Just kind of a bunch of random high poly objects thrown onto a flat texture. If you do not reconsider your direction you will one day look back and realize what I am now telling you is in fact true. The main issue I have is not necessarily the high poly count but more that alot of them are waisted because these models are VERY amateur.

Not saying that I am a professional level modeler...yet but you have to hear me out man. If you were better utilizing your faces and creating objects with more function in mind you will find the map will make more sense. Also another problem that I should have spoken up about before is that you should put some shadow on your texture. Even though I play with shadows on, the maps that rely on only the engine to render the shadows always look dull and will not live long on my hard drive.

I have always liked your layouts but found the quality of your maps to sadly not justify playing on. I do again want to assert that I am saying this because I WANT to see you make better maps.

Honestly guys, If I sat down and produced a low poly set of features would you people use them?
*edited for grammar and readability*

[Forboding Angel]

yes, I sure as hell would.

[AF]

I'm not talking about the features, is that what people think I'm talking about when I say I dont like symetrical maps. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE MAPS THEMSELVES.

If you can mirror the left and right sides of your maps onto eachother like that lost and found map, or many of the other maps we have for spring then it's symetrical. Why oh why do so many new maps are either brilliant,.... or symeterical. Thats my major qualm with maps, and it's a shame that such talent is ruined by a symetrical map.

I'm sorry if I seem brutish there but I really get annoyed when I try a new map and it's perfectly symetrical like so many are these days, thats why i like forebodings maps because I cant remember a map he's ever released thats symetrical.

[smoth]

AF, If the map is asymetrical people tend to bitch that it may have an advantage for either side of the map. Symetrical maps give people absolutely the same for both sides and in that the map is 100% fair for both sides(not counting arm or core advantages).

However, if genblood put more work into the texture we would see variation in the LOOK of the map and that would likely yeild a more interesting map. Also if he varied the height more instead of the flat maps he produces now the maps will play more interesting.

Although, I will admit I have played balanced asymetrical maps and they are VERY tricky to put off. Although I may be biased because I liked genbloods layouts.

[genblood]

Another week has passed and I've made some new features
with low poly count. I'm half way done the map and I figure
in two or three weeks I'll have the map complete. Then I'm
going to test it and see what happens .... So, here
are some SCREENIES ... of the map.









Post your comments .... remember it's still work in
progress .....

[AF]

What if you cahnged the road texture so it was a little more unusual than the yellow and black?

Could you try a shiny metallic runway sorta look instead? Maybe with a feature rather than a texture? Or use white instead of yellow? Do they use yellow instead of white where you are?=s

[Chocapic]

i think it looks each time better, you just have to add a few more features so that it looks like a really lost alien city

[smoth]

I like the new light models.. very alien indeed.

Although the map is VERY flat.. are you going to put some more elevation variance in it?

[genblood]

I had a lot of free time today ... No football to watch
So, I decided to work on more features for the map. I've only
have one more set of of feature to make ....

So, here are some more SCREENIES ....












OFF to watch some TV now ....

[Das Bruce]

Those buildings are both ugly and impractical, not to mention a bland heightmap.

[Argh]

Well... ever since I saw the first "city streets" type map for Spring, I've been waiting for the obvious next step here- a real city with geometry "telling the story".

Problem is... this isn't it. You're really trying hard to make this work, and I think you'll get there, but it's not quite there yet. Basically, what's missing here are a few things:

1. Scales seem really off. Why would anybody (including mysterious aliens) make "lamps" that are so giant? The regular buildings really need to come up in scale, or the lamps need to be a lot smaller.

2. Even moreso than the polycount... the lack of decent skinning really is making this map not work out. You can do a LOT with skins... like

A. Use glowmaps to define areas of a building that are lit, such as lit windows- you can even do this on a plain ol' box, saving polycount.

B. Use reflectivity where it makes sense.

C. Use details to really add a lot to the way that Features feel.

Basically... just throwing repeating textures onto models like this is not a good way to go. I know that you're trying to make this a really ground-breaking map- the first real "cityscape" map. And I am really excited that you're working on this, and want to see it really become cool. But ... it's not quite there yet.

I'll take a look at making some buildings when I'm done with the modeling for NanoBlobs... there's a real need here...

[Chocapic]

i think there should be sort of house ruins or ruins of whatever type that make the map look more like a lost city because it doesnt look much like that now

[PauloMorfeo]

I like very much the features. Like has been said, they look kind of alien. If not alien, at least futuristic. Because of that, i would like to see a diferent kind of roads. Some kind of road that, also, looks alien/futuristic.

[AF]

I dont like the sparse bland expanse of free land inbetween the features, if it is meant to look more like an alien city it sure doesnt with vast swathes of open space inbetween.

And please change the roads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anythign i say has an effect CHANGE THE ROADS!!! please just change the way the roads look, it's my onyl request!!

[genblood]

I've read the comments .... An I'm going to redo the textures
for the features. I'm also, going to reduce the size of the street
lights. The road texture is getting revamped too ....

Basically, another two weeks .... .... BUT ... I'm trying to
make a cool map ... and I'll work on it till I get it right ...
or until I get a more positive feedback ....

Only time will tell ...

[TA 3D]

Genblood, why are you not using the s3o plugin for 3DS MAX 8? It can be found here:
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/temp/s3oexport.dle

[forbidin]

It looks better each time.

For roads, perhaps look at some futuristic racing games and perhaps you'll find some inspiration.

I love some of the tracks in F-Zero on N64 and Gamecube. Also, Extreme-G series had some wild roads too.

For the ground texture, instead of the same tile, perhaps mix it up a bit. Perhaps add in some crators on the ground to hint that it was a nice civilization but then got devistated and now all thats left of the city is a bunch of ruins and some structures here and there. Don't be afraid to go all out. Have some complete structures, then some thats partially damaged, and then ones thats just rubble. Would make for some interesting terrain and gameplay that way :)