Drugs

[Johannes]

i honestly feel that the problem all along is that the policymakers have never actually tried any of the drugs they are making rules about

you really believe that?

[KaiserJ]

lol @ mandatory marijuana, excellent

johannes i believe it as far as my own country goes (and i suppose the USA). not familiar enough with other countries politicians to make a statement about them. how about where you live? is it a bunch of starched shirts and ties setting drug policy? i'm genuinely interested to hear

[SpliFF]

i honestly feel that the problem all along is that the policymakers have never actually tried any of the drugs they are making rules about, and the people who have experience or can find positivity in more relaxed rules regarding them are dismissed as crazy hippies.

I read an interesting article once where a journalist at a "top of town" convention at an expensive hotel (some kind of legal gathering with exactly the kind of lawmakers you refer to) went and took swipes from the bathroom and had them tested for drugs. Results came back positive for about 15 different samples of 4 different illegal substances. In my experience upper-middle white collar "respectable people" tend to be prolific users of especially cocaine but also marijuana and ecstasy (I went to a private school, trust me I've seen it). The crime statistics hide this because these users have access to more secure places for using like in private parties and exclusive clubs with limited access for police. They are also more likely to avoid DUI issues by using cabs or private chauffeurs and if they are caught they have better lawyers. Anyway there are plenty of stats out there indicating that if you haven't tried marijuana by the time you're 20 you are actually in a small minority.

So I'd disagree with the statement the policymakers aren't experienced with or involved in illegal drugs. George Bush Jnr was widely known to be a user (and suspected dealer) of cocaine at school but that didn't stop him from presiding over further drug war abuses under his watch.

I feel this is more a case that simply arguing for sane drug laws gives your political opponents ammunition to claim you are soft on crime or a criminal yourself. It worked for Clinton but that's because his personality and "jazz credentials" allowed him to get away with it. I remember a conservative politician in Australia saying publicly his kids had smoked pot and it really didn't work out that well (actually most of the public negativity was for grassing on his own kids, but it didn't really help his image with his party and constituents).

It basically plays out like communism did in the 1950's. You're told that being a commie is bad (despite also being told as a kid that sharing is good). The media and government kick up hysteria and a few high-profile witch-hunts and suddenly people become afraid to even debate the official line.

I guess it boils down to this. Would you be vocal for drug-law reform if you were growing a large crop in your shed? Probably not. This guy was and it worked out so well for him. In short, it's nearly impossible to have a rational public debate about something that is already illegal because the people that really matter (the users and producers) are going to be under-represented out of fear of legal resprisals.

[AF]

Obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR8XH3R95xE

[scifi]

there all sorts of drugs in this life, just my 2 cents on the issue, drug consumption will always exist no matter what restrictions you put on them. Now what we got to think about, is it preferable for people to consume them hiding in corners, and supply armed gangs with cash for criminal behavior. Or instead let them consume the stuff in legalized houses, where criminal behavior and armed gangs cant reach. And the type and quantity of drugs can be somewhat controlled, think of it like alcohol.

The thing here is that drugs have evolved to a stage of uncontrollability, you cant just legalize all types of drugs available,and expect people not to dope themselves on the harsher types available.

We were naive to think we could control the issue with laws and police. If we had the dam dope houses it would become like an alcohol or tobacco business, now drugs evolved into lethal venoms. Imagine people drinking 100% alcohol drinks, thats what todays drugs have become.

[FLOZi]

Cocaine should be sold with a state monopoly and cut with neurotoxins to kill all the dickheads who take it.

Otherwise I am all for decriminalisation (!= legalisation)

edit: Also calling out Hoi for his bullshit about modern medicine, again.

[PicassoCT]

Cocaine should be sold with a state monopoly and cut with neurotoxins to kill all the dickheads who take it.

Otherwise I am all for decriminalisation (!= legalisation)

edit: Also calling out Hoi for his bullshit about modern medicine, again.

Time for the Weatherforecast?

Today:Clouded!
Tomorrow: Storm!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Also calling out Hoi for his bullshit about modern medicine, again.

Yeah, what is up with that?
Hoi are you secretly a Scientologist or something?

[SpliFF]

Interesting fact: The word "drug", like many English words, is originally latin and it translates to "dried herb". Over time it's meaning evolved to mean "medicine".

drug (n.)
"late 14c. (early 14c. in Anglo-French), "medicine, chemical ingredients," from O.Fr. droge "supply, stock, provision" (14c.), of unknown origin, perhaps from M.Du. or M.L.G. droge-vate "dry barrels," or droge waere, lit. "dry wares," but specifically drugs and spices, with first element mistaken as word for the contents (see dry goods), or because medicines mostly consisted of dried herbs"
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=drug

What makes this funny is that every single person on the planet who has ever taken medicine is a drug user and giving someone a tea or coffee is supplying drugs.

What is also ironic is that the legal definition of a drug as used in the "drug war" (a Schedule 1 substance) means a substance with potential for abuse and no medical uses. Basically the DEA is using the word for dried medicine to describe substances that (they claim) are not medicines and in some cases are not even dried. Sadly most dictionaries have adopted this modern usage so the original meaning has been corrupted and lost.

[Hoi]

Also calling out Hoi for his bullshit about modern medicine, again.

Yeah, what is up with that?
Hoi are you secretly a Scientologist or something?

Including a degree in trolology.

To be more serious, scientology is one of the dumbest things on this world. I'm not crazy...

[KaiserJ]

a very interesting read spliff (and others)

i can't say i disagree with your logic

and it falls right in line with part of my general life philosophy: never trust a person in a uniform; trust a person in a suit even less

edit: as far as tea goes, vomiting, but from both ends

[NeOmega]

weed has always been legal in Uruguay, and now the government is looking to sell it.

[dimm]

The thread with the best Ytube links. So what are the other countries with drug tourism?

[varikonniemi]

This is a fascinating topic, since everybody who has looked into the issue, the history behind prohibition or the actual science that is used to support prohibition all agree that it is a total failure lead by sick lies and tactics of control of the masses.

As a scientist you have to look at all drugs the same. You have to look at them objectively and then draw some general conclusion about the drug in question. Without doubt alcohol is one of the most debilitating drugs known to man, and nicotine so addictive that people keep on using it even decades after their last cigarette "got them high" just because they want to feel normal again before the cravings kick in.

One of the biggest obstacles to humanity shredding this burden of insane policy is the US drug laws and to what extent they go to try enforce restrictions on certain drugs. Marihuana is a class 1 drug, which is the worst of all with no recognized medical usage potential, so research for medical use is made almost impossible. And yet we all know that marihuana is one of the best natural medicines available helping with everything from ms spasticity to depression to schizophrenia to cancer with a remarkably low/nonexistent profile of side effects.

If one would have to summarize up the current war on drugs in one sentence it would be about profit and control of who gets that profit.

Illegal drugs are the 3rd biggest industry on the planet (legals ones coming in as 4th iirc), and if you can by enforcing sick laws gain monopoly of distribution and manufacture of the goods of a business of this size, you have yourself a huge lucrative monopoly. And this is exactly what CIA has been caught doing and is certainly still doing. Importing almost free cocaine/cannabis from south america or opium from afghanistan, and sell it to the big time criminal dealers for 100:s of % priofit. The ones that end up in jail are the puny users who usually run drugs around the city just to feed their addiction. Make no mistake about it, 90% of the profit in the drug industry goes to the big cartels that do import/wholesale and when you are up against CIA in this business you are up against some pretty unfair advantage.

If all drugs were sold as legal drugs the drug companies could still make a normal profit out of their product, and the price of heroin/cocaine etc would drop so low that no-one would need to commit any illegal acts to sustain their habit.

[smoth]

If all drugs were sold as legal drugs the drug companies could still make a normal profit out of their product, and the price of heroin/cocaine etc would drop so low that no-one would need to commit any illegal acts to sustain their habit.

This is true but would you really trust corporations to not abuse their addicts worse than a drug lord does?

[Johannes]

How would it be very different from current alcohol business?

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Watch or read "A Scanner Darkly".

[PicassoCT]

Watch or read "A Scanner Darkly".

watched

[smoth]

How would it be very different from current alcohol business?

you act like alcohol is on the same level as cocaine or heroine..

[Johannes]

Yeah, when it comes to chronic use I don't really know which would be the worst.

Of course taking everything together is harsher than sticking to one substance, though.