A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

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TK-962
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A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by TK-962 » 09 Nov 2011, 15:56

Hello to everyone on the Spring Engine Forums! I'm TK-962, a former modder of the Quake 3 Arena Engine. I have had interest in the Spring engine recently.. To get to the point, I believe I have a good idea for a game developed in the Spring engine.

To start, the type of game will be a RTS game (real time strategy). It will have a sort of sci-fi twist on the mythology of Atlantis. Gameplay environments will include underwater battles in places like coral reefs, underwater caverns, underwater ruins, deep sea battles, and more. In addition, battles can be fought on the surface, so this means battles on the ocean, on the coast, and even in the sky with, perhaps, floating cities and more.

As there are quite a few RTS games out there, this game needs to be unique gameplay-wise. I think this can be achieved in several ways:

1) While playing, you can switch to an FPS mode and get right in the action with the soldiers you deploy in RTS mode. The majority of the game (probably 90 percent) will be played in RTS mode, and you would really only switch to FPS mode if you wanted to hold off a large amount of enemy troops when your existing troops have died.

2) In some levels you can fight in all three environments in one map. You could fight in the sky with airships and the like, and then zoom down some, and fight with boats, and zoom down even more, and could fight underwater battles with submarines. All of this would be done in the same map.

The reason I bring this here to this forum is mainly for opinions. Right now, I really have nothing except the ideas of the game. If you guys think this is a good idea I'd like to take it one step further and start physically working on the game. I would need plenty of modders though. You should probably know, I really don't know that much about Spring engine development. I do however have a good deal of experience in game development for the Quake 3 engine as I have worked on maps, models, textures, Total Conversion mods and more for it, and I think I could apply this experience on Spring when (or if) I learn it so I can work on this game, but like I said, if you guys are favorable to this idea, I'd need plenty of modders, including:

Level Designers
Texture Artists
Concept Artists
Coders
Modelers
Writers
And more

If any of you would like to pursue this idea further, contribute ideas, or would like to work on it, you can reply here as well as email me at porkinspullup@gmail.com.

I look forward to hearing your ideas and feedback.
-TK-962
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by zwzsg » 09 Nov 2011, 16:17

Spring has a button to direct control a single unit in FPS view, but, it's not very useable. It's so clunky you'd be better of reprogramming it entirely, using something like the SpecRun widget.

The map is just a texture with a heightmap, so caverns and flying cities aren't very doable. You could maybe fake them, but again, it'd be hard work to make them look or feel any good.

Try playing different Spring games to get a better feeling of what it does and does not.

Also, every skilled modder already has more than enough to do with his personal project. While you may get some help from time to time, expect the brunt of the work to be done by you and yourself alone. You will never assemble a dream team of modder by just being the idea guy.
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knorke
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by knorke » 09 Nov 2011, 16:46

Hi and welcome.
the engine's fps mode is not really useable.
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... e+#p497394

on the battle in sky, ocean, ground etc:
units can basically move in 4 independant layers:
-following terrain (also underwater terrain, though no game currently uses a lot of underwater fighting so no idea how good it really works ie weapons)
-surface of water
-underwater (submarines)
-flying (flight heights are variable)
there is only 1 layer of terrain so ground units on top of flying units (ala sky city) is not really possible. (inb4 halfassed trickery)

Sadly the wiki is currently down for some reason but I guess it will soon be back and then you will find some tutorials etc there.
Type /join #moddev in the lobby and as zwzsg said, try out some games.
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Anarchid
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by Anarchid » 09 Nov 2011, 19:50

1) While playing, you can switch to an FPS mode and get right in the action with the soldiers you deploy in RTS mode. The majority of the game (probably 90 percent) will be played in RTS mode, and you would really only switch to FPS mode if you wanted to hold off a large amount of enemy troops when your existing troops have died.
Lurk up Urban Assault. Doesn't have all that underwater stuff, but is a pretty nice on fps/rts hybrid.

I actually tried reimplementing it in Spring (as Metropolis Spring thus), but got short due to real life complications. I am still going to do it a bit later (a few months, i hope they'll get assimp finalized, roam working, and stability improved by then), but until then...

Also, i 100% agree that if you want usable FPS side, you'll need to recode it in lua. Not only is the engine-side implementation utterly broken, it's also not customizable even when it works.
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PicassoCT
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by PicassoCT » 09 Nov 2011, 19:50

Hey, i was the idea guy, and assembled myself a dream team. We have cactus-on-the-window coding the AI, and there is Mr. empty coke-bottle doing the texturig. And here we have mr. external harddrive doing the sound.

Its not all sole crunching.
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MidKnight
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by MidKnight » 09 Nov 2011, 19:58

Hello and welcome!

I was going to write a giant wall of text, but it seems that Z and Knorke have covered things quite nicely.

All I have to add is that Spring really is an incredibly powerful engine. People like zwzsg will tell you that making your game will be extremely difficult (and they're right!), but putting in the effort is certainly worth it!

Good luck! I can't wait to see your work!

EDIT: Picasso's team is the next Valve!
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SirArtturi
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by SirArtturi » 09 Nov 2011, 20:19

Hi,

I love your idea. I think there is still plenty room for decent fps/rts games.

Even for rpg/rts/fps games, which are 'the games of the games.'

Some of my absolute all time favorites so far has been battlezone series, tribes 1, and especially natural selection 1 (half life mod).

Unfortunately I have to say spring engine might not be the best one for your idea.

Why? Because spring is more focused on medium and large scale macro rts games, which are controlled mainly overview camera angles. Sure the engine provides a great deal for developers who want to implement micro-management scaled features as well. It just means a little extra work on your own.

As far as I know, not much rpg elements have so far appeared on the spring games, but they are yet totally doable, Am I right?

FPS support, while being really poor, is your biggest concern however. And this is mainly why I see your idea not suitable for this engine.
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TK-962
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by TK-962 » 09 Nov 2011, 21:46

Yes, I decided that I would probably make the game with the UDK engine, as it is much more modern, and works well in FPS. If any of you know how to work on UDK, or you are a good concept artist, writer, or sound designer, you can email me (my email is in the first post in this thread) and we can work on it together. So far, I've got one volunteer, so more are appreciated. We have a small forum which can be found here:

http://atlantisgame.forumotion.com/
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smoth
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by smoth » 09 Nov 2011, 23:08

Feels like you are talent poaching.
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TK-962
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by TK-962 » 09 Nov 2011, 23:16

I didn't decide I would use UDK until after I wrote the first post. As for "poaching," I'm really just trying to find some help on this project. If you moderators feel I'm just advertising here, feel free to delete this thread.
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smoth
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by smoth » 09 Nov 2011, 23:26

I didn't say it was bad or good, I just said how I felt man.
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TK-962
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by TK-962 » 09 Nov 2011, 23:30

Don't worry, I'm not angry. It was just a misunderstanding. :)
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Google_Frog
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by Google_Frog » 10 Nov 2011, 07:43

I think you've all focused too heavily on the FPS aspect.

I think you've got the best chance of making this game on the spring engine as it does most of what you want already. Of course there may be some compromises. For example you can't have caves on top of other caves and the network structure prohibits a fast paced FPS.

The main selling point is that spring does all the basic RTS stuff and comes with 4 layers; air, sea surface, underwater and sea floor. Air units can be both fighter style or starcraft style and can be positioned vertically. I think underwater units can be positioned vertically too (if they can't it should be fairly simple to add).

On the FPS side normal latency is about 500ms so you're limited to 'tank FPS' instead of twitchy FPS.

Anyway as you said 90% RTS I'd definitely go with spring because coding an RTS basically from scratch with UDK sounds like an enormous amount of work that far outweighs anything you'd have to write here.
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yanom
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by yanom » 11 Nov 2011, 04:45

zwzsg wrote:You will never assemble a dream team of modder by just being the idea guy.
Yes.

Any old fart can come up with good game ideas, but real talent is MAKING those games. :D
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PicassoCT
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by PicassoCT » 11 Nov 2011, 09:43

I see what you posted there.
You want us to realize your genious game idea.
So you want us to bet a whole year of workforce, in that battle against your idea?

I accept this challenge. Moar brilliant idea i choose you.

My idea is a shooter, with just one level, three weapons, and only slightly altered player-physics.

How that is brilliant? How this can win?
Well, for once, the players will be able to do a "hunt-jump" with there right-mouseclick, enabling them to do suprise-attacks, while sailing through the air.

Thats not original, has been done before, you say?

Wait till i get going. Where was I, oh, yes there are three weapons in my sky-castle-game, one beeing a sniper, you must hold leftmousekey to charge it up, using the "jump-energy" to fire.
Has been done allready? Curse it, this way im going to loose, having to do your game...
There is a second gun, i call the exponential, it starts firing one bullet per halfsecond, doubleraising the raisins-rain per 0.5-second.
Third... this time, its a rocketlauncher, whos rockets can be timered to work as grenades.
OMG, i see now, im clearly out of my league, you beat me, guess im not that original and that brilliant after all.

Oh, one last thing the level.
The Level is one big Pit with lava below, its played in team Games, were the home bases are on elevators facing each other. Am i good yet? Wait, wait its not all lost.
Remember the movie Cube? I ll take one of those Cubes, and i take the concept out of Tetris, banging those ideas together.
Suddenly, the team, that holds the flag on the highest Cube is able to drop Cubecombinations from the sky, getting points.
Now, look at your idea, look at mine, look at yours, back at mine. Notice a tiny difference?
Image
What? Why the long face?
I didnt even told you about the traps, dropable addons yet.
Why suddenly so white, shivering, eyeing for the close tab button?

Guess, beeing the old bastard i am, and the apprentice you are, you know what now follows... Hard, earning scholar years.
Your idea is now mine, i won it fair and square. So is your lazy Ass, and your workforce for one year.

Now were do we get started? Oh, yes, smell that. Thats the forgotten Filesfolder on github. The Pastebin.
http://pastebin.com/archive
Those devs, never ever clean up in years, they just move place of operation if the mess piles up to high.
So here is a zipfolder, filled with dirty tgas, phlailing models, and horrible beginners code. DIS-GUSTING! Horrible!

I want you to clean this up, and dont forget to use the small eraser brush in ms-paint, to get into the corners.
Now, go, you ve been beaten fair and square. If you finnish, i may teach you some tricks, and tell you one day how you lost this one.
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knorke
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by knorke » 11 Nov 2011, 12:28

Thats the forgotten Filesfolder on github. The Pastebin.
http://pastebin.com/archive
Oh, so that is where the small Luas come from.
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momfreeek
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by momfreeek » 11 Nov 2011, 12:35

TK-962 wrote:I do however have a good deal of experience in game development for the Quake 3 engine as I have worked on maps, models, textures, Total Conversion mods and more for it, and I think I could apply this experience on Spring when (or if) I learn it so I can work on this game, but like I said, if you guys are favorable to this idea, I'd need plenty of modders
Yeah, fucking modders coming here with their ideas about making games with spring. Chase them off before they get comfortable or they might bring more! :roll:


Ok, sry, maybe I just don't get it:

Is there reason behind this attitude?
I get that you don't want to "work for him" but you could just "not work for him", I don't see where the "ridicule him" bit comes into that.

Is this just another spring tradition based on trollish nonsense and past failures (if you don't try you can't fail)?
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PicassoCT
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by PicassoCT » 11 Nov 2011, 12:50

Its the "I ve done miracles before, but wont reference with a simple link to them. Do it for me bitches, search the web, for im the newKingComer. Now i invite you on a dream journey to all the features imagineable, althought that might bring back all those ugly memorys of ideas you yourself had to abandone because they were to big of a workload to carry on. Now that i reminded you of your aborted idea-sons and daugthers, distracting you from getting something done, lets all get in a positiv mood for im about to anounce what you can do for the game. Dont ask what the game can do for you." attitude that doesent win friends.

We know how capable people come in, how they suggest, how they ask, how they post screens, reference, anything to show, the invested the time first, and have earned the trust. Sunspot showed how its done.

If you want to win somebody here for even just a code review you ve got to do something before, you ve got to post it. A map, a piece of lua code, anything. Otherwise the godz of old might strike with lightning for your tinfoilhat antenna.

Lets face it. He was just another teenager, with great plans, touring the web, not touching the tutorials, allready on his way to the next forum were he can boast about his archievments in someone else mod (he made a Icon for in ms-paint).

I doubt anyone in this forum really eve trolled him. Smoth and Zwzsg use standard, copy paste sarca-replys by noaw anyway, so yeah, that about covers it.

If you want to protect those noobs from the hatred of the working dev drones without players, why not stuff them into the absolut-beginners board first were we are not allowed to post, see if they can get each other to work for there ideas.
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momfreeek
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by momfreeek » 11 Nov 2011, 13:01

I have nothing to lose here, so screw it, I'll ask my difficult questions with good intent.


So he's got to post a reference before being asked or he gets treated like a complete moron by seemingly complete dicks. This pre-judgement seems rather open to fault, but yes I am an outsider to this game.

Is it possible he could have been a valid addition to the community? But shit why would he want to try?

If you weed out all those who don't want to be around a bunch of dicks (hey I'm not saying you are, thats just how the newcomers get treated), it seems you might alienate a lot of reasonable people.
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knorke
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Re: A Unique RTS-FPS game idea

Post by knorke » 11 Nov 2011, 13:36

Yeah, fucking modders coming here with their ideas about making games with spring. Chase them off before they get comfortable or they might bring more! :roll:
If TK-962 does not use Spring it is because:
TK-962 wrote:Yes, I decided that I would probably make the game with the UDK engine, as it is much more modern, and works well in FPS.
He wants FPS, Spring is not really suited for that -> no interesst to use it.
Sure, he could have replied to the various posts and ask what are the problems with FPS in Spring but he either already knows or does not care. No one was being a dick as I can see.

btw, if you are still interessted wiki is back online: http://springrts.com/wiki/Game_and_Unit ... evelopment
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