Spring : 1943 has a forum!

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 22 Dec 2005, 20:46

Or how about the mod is a wird alternate univers, where in the war lasted ten years longer and wird wepons that where GOING to be used. Like the Bat Bomb! Or the nuke gun! or the pigion guided missles (Those a real).

smokeynseinor · Post by **smokeynseinor** » 22 Dec 2005, 20:55

Hey thats a good idea. Let me think for a minute here. No. This mod is built around 1943 specificly the battle of Kursk.

TA 3D · Post by **TA 3D** » 22 Dec 2005, 20:56

That illistration looks a lot like the few pics of the Paris gun(which I believe was called the Big Bertha), think 75Mile range gun that had some much firepower, that after every 6 shots(may have only been 3) they had to re-bore the barrel. As with the illistration, the Paris Gun had to be moved on doulbe track. When the allies came through, all that was found was the perminet gun placements for it. No one knows what ever happened to it. It was in the +150mm barrel range(I looked it up a while ago). Oh and not to mention it's accurecy was the size of Paris at the time. Yes they were crazy, but then again so was Sudam. He tryed to build a bigger one in Iraq to shell Isreal with, but the trucks carring the "unsally large sections of pipe" got appreahended by the US and allies.. So much for big guns.

smokeynseinor · Post by **smokeynseinor** » 22 Dec 2005, 22:15

115km range or there abouts I think it was. And working on the average ww1 artillery velocity I once worked it out that it took about 3 minutes to hit the target from the time it was fired to the time of arrival.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 22 Dec 2005, 22:23

Just looked it up - yeah, the Paris gun was ww1, and you've got most of th e stats and such right. The Gustav was late WW2, and there were only two built - Gustav and Dora. They fired 80cm shells but were only used minimally since they were designed for the Maginot line - apparently the Gustav blew up a few Soviet forts.

From a quick google search on the Gustav:

Two types of projectiles were fired using a 3000lb. charge of smokeless powder: a 10,584 lb. high explosive (HE) shell and a 16,540 lb. concrete-piercing projectile. Craters from the HE shells measured 30-ft. wide and 30-ft. deep while the concrete piercing projectile proved capable of penetrating 264-ft. of reinforced concrete before exploding! Maximum range was 23 miles with HE shells and 29 miles with concrete piercing projectiles. Muzzle velocity was approximately 2700 f.p.s.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 22 Dec 2005, 23:12

Always found THESE more impressive myself.

Anyway, apparantly the KS-12 was used at kursk specifically in the AT role, but overall the carriage was too high and it was not well suited to it, despite the power of the gun. They were usually kept well behind the lines.

maestro · Post by **maestro** » 23 Dec 2005, 01:23

Pxtl wrote:Just looked it up - yeah, the Paris gun was ww1, and you've got most of th e stats and such right. The Gustav was late WW2, and there were only two built - Gustav and Dora. They fired 80cm shells but were only used minimally since they were designed for the Maginot line - apparently the Gustav blew up a few Soviet forts.

From a quick google search on the Gustav:

Two types of projectiles were fired using a 3000lb. charge of smokeless powder: a 10,584 lb. high explosive (HE) shell and a 16,540 lb. concrete-piercing projectile. Craters from the HE shells measured 30-ft. wide and 30-ft. deep while the concrete piercing projectile proved capable of penetrating 264-ft. of reinforced concrete before exploding! Maximum range was 23 miles with HE shells and 29 miles with concrete piercing projectiles. Muzzle velocity was approximately 2700 f.p.s.

Gustav is active against soviet fortified defence iirc

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 23 Dec 2005, 08:49

I think you guys should merge for the betterment of your fans.

Two mods attempting ultimately a very similar goal is dividing resources that could very succesfully be put together, and result in a better mod, sooner.

Yes, AATA attempts a simulation, and 1943ttempts a more fluid game, I think that both of these have advantages and disadvantages which can complement each other in a single WWII mod.

smokeynseinor · Post by **smokeynseinor** » 23 Dec 2005, 09:11

We were specificly looking at eastern front combat in 1943 in particular the battle of Kursk.

We want a simple straight forward mod that is as close to reality as possible but we also want to incoperate some different features such as:

A different resource system unknown to TA so far (or so i think) "Metal" will be Steel and collected in a way similar to TA now and if possible your Steel income will be proportional to the amount of territory you control.

There will be no "Energy". Keeping with the whole theme of 1943 Oil will be the substitute.
Armoured vehicles and anything that requres Oil to function will use oil to manouvre bringing about a whole new logostics aspect of mobile warfare. You will have to plan how much Oil you can afford and what route will be the most Oil conservative. Oil will be collected by Wells that can be built anywhere on the map but produce little Oil in comparison to "Oil Refineries" which have to be built on a Geo vent.

These are ideas that we(By we I really mean myself because Das Bruce is away for a few days and he told me to take the reins) feel must be incoperated into the mod and a merg with other mods would only be considered if these fundamental aspects of the mod were adopted.

dasbruce.darkstars.co.uk

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 23 Dec 2005, 11:04

Shame those resource ideas are a fairly straight lift from what Zsinj came up with for AATA, only not as good.

MrAstrup · Post by **MrAstrup** » 23 Dec 2005, 11:15

Hi Pxtl.

I├é┬┤m hostorically very interested in the first World War and I can't help saying that it is not called a "Paris Gun". It is actually and funny enough called a "Big Bertha". The name "Big Bertha" orginates from this war, since Bertha was a common German name in those days like Fritz etc..... and yes, it was used to bomb Paris from a distance of more than 100 kilometers...

Chris Tailor must have known about this cannon and it├é┬┤s history when he made OTA.....

By the way, it may be a good idea to look at the Panzer General Series to get inspiration to a WW2 mod. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel when much of the info about weapons from this war can be found in this game....

Have a nice Christmas all of you!

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 24 Dec 2005, 00:25

I wouldn't say it is that similar, except for perhaps oil/logistics; but not as good, certainly

smokeynseinor · Post by **smokeynseinor** » 24 Dec 2005, 00:43

It was I who suggested the idea of Oil and Steel to Das Bruce and I had never even seen or played your mod (still havent).

We would much rather steal cool scripts and models than ideas.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 24 Dec 2005, 06:07

Confusing the "Big Bertha" and "Paris Gun" issue: there were two different Big Berthas in the German arsenal.

The first type was the 42cm Krupp howitzer, semi-officially called the "Big Bertha" after the wife of Mr. Krupp. This was available at the beginning of the war and used extensively against fortresses.

The second type was the true Paris Gun, and was also nicknamed "Big Bertha", but was not at all equivalent to the first. The Paris Gun was designed to bomb Paris to terrorize the citizens into submission. It could fire a shell 70 miles in 170 seconds, reaching a maximum altitude of 24 miles. Its drawbacks: the payload was a mere 15 pounds of high explosive; it was wildly inaccurate; and it would have to be rebored after 65 rounds being fired through it.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 24 Dec 2005, 07:48

Darn...cause a alternate history WWII mod would be SOOOO COOL!

Casue those pidgion guided missles are real. I didnt make it up

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 24 Dec 2005, 21:20

smokeynseinor wrote:115km range or there abouts I think it was. And working on the average ww1 artillery velocity I once worked it out that it took about 3 minutes to hit the target from the time it was fired to the time of arrival.

Yaaarrgh! So you see, AA's artillery is quite realistic!

I'll be going now.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 25 Dec 2005, 01:34

Russian 85mm gun was rarely used as a defensive AT gun. It wasn't as versatile as the 88. It was used as armament in tanks though, and it did perform similarly to the 88 but never as widely or as successfully, which is a similar case in many other reguards where the Allies had similar weapons used in similar ways to the Germans but never used as effectively as the Germans.

GL with your mod.

Spring RTS Engine

Spring : 1943 has a forum!

It is not called a Paris gun!