we sux

[Johannes]

'That's not the main point of SC2 ladder at all'

not the main, but one of two, so what u say is also obviously correct, second are tournaments, and im pretty sure than yes, how the feck u imagine urself organising official tournaments ?

second part of ur reply is obviously wrong.

nobody cares about ladder/playing ladder games

@ knorke 'ladder:
nobody cares about winning money Oo
its all about epenis.'

if they are living from playing it, then yes. and all top cs/sc etc player live like this

I don't know for sure how exactly most SC2 (official? are there unofficial ones) tournaments are organised but ofc there's many many ways besides inviting based on ladderrank. I don't know so much about SC2 tourneys but most i remember looking at, were open or invite. Obviously you provideed no proof.

What he meant is that for Spring players or all of the non-pro SC players money gained is not important motive for competing (some better reasons for playing challenging multiplayer game: Intellectual challenge and krushing noobs), if money was so important to them ofc Spring would be better than SC2 since it's free! Ofc some cash prize can add to the excitement for amateur competition too but it's not the most important thing.

Not really going to encourage someone to start playing spring when the majority of 1v1 pros have played for well over 2000hours. It would take a beginner like 4 years to even near tournament winning skill.

This is bullshit btw. It shouldn't take too long to get top level in any Spring game if you're smart and have understanding of RTS from another game. And are determined about improving. How much of that 2000h was even actually spent playing well and not dicking around or afkspeccing

[SwiftSpear]

ye but sc ladder is made to pick group of ppl to compete in a tournaments so they can win cash (counted in thousands), in spring it was to make someones e-peenis bigger, so why bother ?

Cash isn't as much a motivator as you think it is. SC had shit for cash in it's tournaments for years. White Ra travels to america to try to win the price of his plane ticket, prize money that he promptly spends 50% of buying vodka at the club for the majority of the other players in the competition.

There IS big money in SC today, but it's all in Korea, and there is yet to be a white guy to win a Korean tournament. Sure, there's the romanticism of "maby I'll be that one guy", but the Koreans practice for Star Craft the way the Chinese gymnasts train for the Olympics, that competitive drive for american and European star craft players has nothing to do with a realistic expectation of making money. You can make as much money working at pretty much any minimum wage job than your average SC2 pro player makes. The competition is the motivator, the drive to be better than everyone else.

Spring doesn't have that. I wouldn't go so far as to say we've killed it, but blizzard works hard as hell to encourage it, whereas there really hasn't ever been a spring development that really made the lives of competitive players easier, or made mass gaming more realistic. They need a number to shoot for, they need "I have to be platinum 2200 rank!". If you spark the competitive drive the tournaments follow naturally.

As it stands, the spring ladder had a plethora of bad design choices and errors all of which were discussed at length but never fixed, and additionally, one of the primary methods of going up the ranks was simply cheating the system, which was quite broken. It basically ruined it for everyone.

But it's not only ladder, it's things that were missing like the TL community for SC. Competitive players on the forum, because this is by enlarge a development forum, have always kind of been shirked aside, and no strong competitive community ever arose. Another missing aspect is any type of tutorial or training systems. Many competitive starcraft players started out getting lessons from higher end players to accelerate that "4 year learning curve" someone else mentioned to a much more achievable goal. We've just never really had and strong or solid competitive play mechanics in spring. It's just the way it is.

[Wombat]

Obviously you provideed no proof.

and u did (actually i checked blizzard site and all open tournaments are like ' maybe u will win some prize' or ' we got 20 penciles for winners!')

if money was so important to them ofc Spring would be better than SC2 since it's free!

do u read again before u click 'submit' ?

-----

ill answer to swift later, too many smart things to reply to at work ;p

[knorke]

As a parallel, I don't have the foggiest idea what is better vs what in sc2, and I know basically zilch of how the armor system works in sc2, but you play a few games and you get a pretty good idea of what is good vs what. Same thing went for RUSE when a bunch of us were playing it, we didn't know shit about the internals, we just played a few games and figured it out.

I dont know either lol. I think in SC1 it was just small, mediuam and big units but I only found out years after.
Generally i just play by feel anyway. ie I "know" how many peewees i have to rush in to kill that energy storage with a near llt or if my planes in C&C will survive flying over that aa turrets.
But I dont remember any damage/health/cost etc numbers.

Now, can you honestly tell me that that is hard to remember?

Not hard to remember but hard to see.
If this zergling with its claws gets near enough the space marine, the marine is dead.
Or with the jeep i can run down all the infantry because they shot too slow and a few shots wont stop it.
With Evo, i dont know, I just see a bunch of plasma, fire and missles and its fun to play and look at but I just put 1x 1x 1x 1x 1x or similiar on repeat in the factory, pretend its kernel panic and hope for the best.

ladder / tourneys:
would be nice to have for serious games or just matchmaking. its generally rare to have two players meet who are both motivated to win/on the same level of being awake/one not stoned/are trying out something new/not playing with touchpad.
Not even mentioning team games.

Maybe needs more knorkebot!!
It seems to motivate players already as is:

[02:42] [PiRO]uette is it 2:35 already
[02:42] [PiRO]MaN ye
[02:42] [PiRO]uette damn
[02:42] [PiRO]uette well knorkebot is here :)
[02:43] [Fx]Ryan 1:35 here :D
[02:43] [PiRO]uette so we just gotta keep playing

maybe just needs more epenis now! \o/

I don't know for sure how exactly most SC2 (official? are there unofficial ones) tournaments are organised but ofc there's many many ways besides inviting based on ladderrank.

Lots of unofficial ones. Many forums have a SC2 tournament thread even if the forum is not even about gaming: ie http://c-plusplus.de/forum/viewtopic-va ... 75921.html
Don't know many other games that are so popular as Starcraft 2 except WoW, Farmville and maybe the later Call of Duty series.

[Wombat]

CS ;p

according armour class, add nerves all these screamy little asians and u get nice brainfuk :D

[Johannes]

I don't know for sure how exactly most SC2 (official? are there unofficial ones) tournaments are organised but ofc there's many many ways besides inviting based on ladderrank.

Lots of unofficial ones. Many forums have a SC2 tournament thread even if the forum is not even about gaming: ie http://c-plusplus.de/forum/viewtopic-va ... 75921.html

Yep if you wanna say all tournies not held by Blizzard are unofficial. But that's kinda silly when next to all are "unofficial" then.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=36
Wombat feel free to check those tournies, how many with good prizes use ladder rank for anything? It's all some invitational or open. Blizzards site means nothing when they hold tournies themselves very rarely.

if money was so important to them ofc Spring would be better than SC2 since it's free!

do u read again before u click 'submit' ?

no

But point was to say, people pay money to compete in SC2 and never get that amount out. So no, they don't play ladder for money lol

[koshi]

As it stands, the spring ladder had a plethora of bad design choices and errors all of which were discussed at length but never fixed, and additionally, one of the primary methods of going up the ranks was simply cheating the system, which was quite broken. It basically ruined it for everyone.

You seem to be oblivious to the current ladder system. Which isn't that surprising, given that after lots of people crying for a ladder system for a long while after Meltrax' system broke, when the current implementation was made public very few people actually used/tested/helped with it.

[smoth]

But then there is the question if paying upfront even makes sense with this eco and its constant income?

because the income is eventually going to be so much every ten seconds..?

[Jazcash]

The only reason I'd ever play in a tournament would be to lengthen my e-penis some more.

[Wombat]

But point was to say, people pay money to compete in SC2 and never get that amount out. So no, they don't play ladder for money lol

plz learn to read or dont participate in any discussion, thx

[SwiftSpear]

I don't know for sure how exactly most SC2 (official? are there unofficial ones) tournaments are organised but ofc there's many many ways besides inviting based on ladderrank.

Lots of unofficial ones. Many forums have a SC2 tournament thread even if the forum is not even about gaming: ie http://c-plusplus.de/forum/viewtopic-va ... 75921.html

Yep if you wanna say all tournies not held by Blizzard are unofficial. But that's kinda silly when next to all are "unofficial" then.

Google had an employee tournament... There's MANY unofficial tournies.

If you want to join MLG (the biggest american tournament right now), all you have to do is pay in. If you placed top10, you're pretty much guaranteed an invite to almost any other tourny you like. The pay in, if I recall correctly, is 80$ US. They also rank all of the players who have played in past MLG tournaments and invite the top names from that list (they don't have to pay the 80$)

If your ladder ranking sucks I seriously doubt you have a chance to recap your pay in though. Although there are exceptions, like Idra, who plays 13 hours a day with practice partners, and thus has a poor ladder ranking, but regularly guts people in tournaments.

The reality of the situation though is that literally millions of people will shit a brick if you pay into some tourny and make serious waves and you are a no name, without even any ladder recognition. If you think you can pull it off, I highly encourage it, you'll be infamous pretty much instantly.

[Wombat]

according 1st post.

750k now, wtf o_o

lets make game made of cubical models ! OMG IM SO EPIC, GOOD IDEA ME!

[PicassoCT]

according 1st post.

750k now, wtf o_o

lets make game made of cubical models ! OMG IM SO EPIC, GOOD IDEA ME!

Done.

Screenshot shows an Airraid.

AirRadeonWombat.jpg

(212.64 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

[FireStorm_]

Picasso, you do paintings to? (interesting subject matter from what i can tell) Not bad.

[Karl]

Picasso, you do paintings to? (interesting subject matter from what i can tell) Not bad.

Thats why his name is Picasso

[FireStorm_]

Am I to understand you thought I didn't know?

[Machete234]

lets make game made of cubical models ! OMG IM SO EPIC, GOOD IDEA ME!

as long as its not based on a manga...

[smoth]

lets make game made of cubical models ! OMG IM SO EPIC, GOOD IDEA ME!

as long as its not based on a manga...

I know rite?

[Machete234]

Why would people build mechs?
All you need is a tripwire and boom 10mio $ mech is broken.
Seen this "star wars" film or how its called?

[Karl]

Why would people build mechs?
All you need is a tripwire, boom 10mio $ mech is broken.
Seen this "star wars" film or how its called?

Oh fuck i've read that similar discussion somewhere on ppmsites befor CNC3 got released