The biggest issue in XTA for me are the jeffy's/weasels.
They got great Speed,Firepower,Armor for their price..
imo they should be fragile, hence they are FAST so they can't carry a big load of armor... Hence the Flash which costs slighty more can't win over a jeffy!
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The biggest issue in XTA for me are the jeffy's/weasels.
They got great Speed,Firepower,Armor for their price..
imo they should be fragile, hence they are FAST so they can't carry a big load of armor... Hence the Flash which costs slighty more can't win over a jeffy!
Flash can't kill a jeffy? NO. Flashes kill jeffys for many resons.
1. In a 1v1, a flash wins. A jeffy got the same range as the flash, so hit and run tatics are generaly so-so effective. Plus, your either offensive attacks the enemys base (thus ignoring the annoying pest) or your defencive and stays in the base (Thus ignoring if it tryes to lure your troop s out).
2. Jeffys cost 3 times the amount of flashes. MORE i think. They also has 4 times the build time. While you oppenth has one jeffy, you have 4 flashes. More if your defencive. You can proably send 4 flashes away and pump out 4 new before the first jeffys hits you base.
I've had a Weasel just run through a line of four Jeffys, taking minimal damage and destroying three mexes before it went near a llt.Kixxe wrote: Flash can't kill a jeffy? NO. Flashes kill jeffys for many resons.
1. In a 1v1, a flash wins. A jeffy got the same range as the flash, so hit and run tatics are generaly so-so effective. Plus, your either offensive attacks the enemys base (thus ignoring the annoying pest) or your defencive and stays in the base (Thus ignoring if it tryes to lure your troop s out).
2. Jeffys cost 3 times the amount of flashes. MORE i think. They also has 4 times the build time. While you oppenth has one jeffy, you have 4 flashes. More if your defencive. You can proably send 4 flashes away and pump out 4 new before the first jeffys hits you base.
The problem
It's too bad that in Spring, sight-range doesn't really matter a lot. Personally, I think that should be the primary use of the Jeffy - give it really good sight-range and a short radar. Then you have a reason to include them in your army, while it can still be minimally combat-useful. Basically, turn the Jeffy into a lightly-armed ground-based peeper.
I played a game not too long ago where a swarm of level 1 tanks and kbots came at my base. I sent a team of 4 mavericks and they ate them up for dinner. Not because they can go toe to toe with the whole swarm, but because of the mixture of heavy firepower and range. THey would skirt the edge of the swarm, killing one unit or two every shot, and just continued until it was over.BadMan wrote:Here are my thoughts...which for the most part, agree with everyone else.
Mavricks: They seriously need a power boost. They are too weak against even lv 1 units.
Anyway, thats how I feel.
The great part of mavs is that they aren't heavily armored behemoths like sumos, but they are "gunslinging kbots" that have mean guns and fire pretty quick. Keep em safe and mix them up with other units and you will do well.
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SwiftSpear
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Kixxe: jeffys fire a lazer, flash fire machine gun style. Flash miss a disturbing ammount of thier shots on a moving target. Yes if you have a jeffy and a flash face off just standing there the flash wins, but when you have the jeffy run lines against the flash they win, and they keep more then half thier health doing it. I always set circular waypoints around any unit I am fighting with a jeffy weasle or zipper. It's suprizing what they can take out, just because other units can't hit them.
I'd suggest either pulling 200 hitpoints off of all the fast attack units, or just making them all increadibly weak to plasma. Force people to get light tanks to counter zippy units.
I'd suggest either pulling 200 hitpoints off of all the fast attack units, or just making them all increadibly weak to plasma. Force people to get light tanks to counter zippy units.
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SwiftSpear
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I don't know if they are resistant to lazer or something, but the last time I attacked a base with a zipper the guy had an LLT up, which I just ran right by with it fully firing at me, still only putting me to low red in about 4 hit shots. You shouldn't need multiple LLTs to stop a zipper doing stupid stunts like that. At the same time I agree, a well aware micro'ed zipper shouldn't die without being able to do damage unless the player it's attacking is also really on the ball. Right now they are beefy enough to shrug off too much damage, but minus 200 health they will be more realisitically killable. They have like 600-800 hitpoints (depending which FAU you use).Kixxe wrote:Im fine something like that. I just don't want them to be "Fragile"...I'd suggest either pulling 200 hitpoints off of all the fast attack units, or just making them all increadibly weak to plasma. Force people to get light tanks to counter zippy units.
just two my cents about wesels or jeffry.
1) 2 weasels can kill any starting base exept bases which has 2 llts. they can kill a lot of metal extractors whitout any chances to get them if managed properly. they also get time of attacked players - you need to manage your defence to stop them.
that means that every player need to go that way -- build asap a weasel and attck. otherthise he need to build 2 llts and get only very limited protection, and spend a lot (400 metal) on it - less effective.
That limits game/everyplayer do the same building route,so no strategy or individual build order for all of us - just micro and weasels. No fun.
2) personaly don't like micro. at all. it is just making rts game poorly action game. more micro - less time to make macro strategy - develop your plans and build orders. just less thinking/more clicking.
So guys who love micro - why don't you get playing starcraft with korenian guys who clicks 120 times a minute? Coom on - you can click faster =)
1) 2 weasels can kill any starting base exept bases which has 2 llts. they can kill a lot of metal extractors whitout any chances to get them if managed properly. they also get time of attacked players - you need to manage your defence to stop them.
that means that every player need to go that way -- build asap a weasel and attck. otherthise he need to build 2 llts and get only very limited protection, and spend a lot (400 metal) on it - less effective.
That limits game/everyplayer do the same building route,so no strategy or individual build order for all of us - just micro and weasels. No fun.
2) personaly don't like micro. at all. it is just making rts game poorly action game. more micro - less time to make macro strategy - develop your plans and build orders. just less thinking/more clicking.
So guys who love micro - why don't you get playing starcraft with korenian guys who clicks 120 times a minute? Coom on - you can click faster =)
1:Well, offcourse. that's why we are having this discussion. Any ideas how to fix the weasel?sergey wrote:just two my cents about wesels or jeffry.
1) 2 weasels can kill any starting base exept bases which has 2 llts. they can kill a lot of metal extractors whitout any chances to get them if managed properly. they also get time of attacked players - you need to manage your defence to stop them.
that means that every player need to go that way -- build asap a weasel and attck. otherthise he need to build 2 llts and get only very limited protection, and spend a lot (400 metal) on it - less effective.
That limits game/everyplayer do the same building route,so no strategy or individual build order for all of us - just micro and weasels. No fun.
2) personaly don't like micro. at all. it is just making rts game poorly action game. more micro - less time to make macro strategy - develop your plans and build orders. just less thinking/more clicking.
So guys who love micro - why don't you get playing starcraft with korenian guys who clicks 120 times a minute? Coom on - you can click faster =)
2: ... not excakly.
To mirco is to make qwick tatical desition to make your units fight better. To move artillery into to right position is microing. To move the wounded units back and cover the hole with fresh new units is microing. To make your units surrond a bulldog so it can't move is microing.
Granted, thinking on the macro scale is important to. You need to have the right units for the fight, but still use these units well. Without micro, we would just have any bland RTS thats all about building the right units. This would make winning as esay as follwing instruktions on a sheet of papper.
Also, Starcraft is one of the games that needs the least microing out there. My brothers best startegy for starcraft is to be zerg, wait till you have 2 eggs in each hatcheory, build some diffrent units depeding on, and Ctrl +a + enemys base. Wow, strategy for all?
Besides, it's called an REAL TIME startegy game for something. It's suposed to be about making qwick tatical destions and adapt your strategy to yout enemys weakness in position, choice of units, or resources. If you don't want to baby-sit your units, go play advanced wars.
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SwiftSpear
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Fine, you get to code the optimized combat AI that guarentees that units micro themselfs well enough that players get no advantage from doing it manually. Dislike micro all you want, fact of the matter is you need it because game AI is stupid (and I don't mean that figuritively, it is literally too dumb to do the things we do naturally without eating your processor for breakfast) and will be beaten by a player who micromanages his units properly. Either way, personally I like to watch a game play itself as little as possible. If all you like doing is building your base why don't you go play sim city or something (damn, unfair character insults go both ways D:)sergey wrote:just two my cents about wesels or jeffry.
1) 2 weasels can kill any starting base exept bases which has 2 llts. they can kill a lot of metal extractors whitout any chances to get them if managed properly. they also get time of attacked players - you need to manage your defence to stop them.
that means that every player need to go that way -- build asap a weasel and attck. otherthise he need to build 2 llts and get only very limited protection, and spend a lot (400 metal) on it - less effective.
That limits game/everyplayer do the same building route,so no strategy or individual build order for all of us - just micro and weasels. No fun.
2) personaly don't like micro. at all. it is just making rts game poorly action game. more micro - less time to make macro strategy - develop your plans and build orders. just less thinking/more clicking.
So guys who love micro - why don't you get playing starcraft with korenian guys who clicks 120 times a minute? Coom on - you can click faster =)
Yes, it's a great game, i just said it in point of the microing and REAL TIME strategy. The real time part being that it's a hectic game where 2 second desitions can make your day. Instead of advanced wars, where you can just sit back and think for 5 minutes on the next move. Advanced wars are like a improved form of chess.Min3mat wrote:wtf advanace wars is a great game! what are u on kixxe!that game is sooo damn good, although ur point about micro stands, the 3Dness of Spring really emphasizes it
I would say - that micro or let's name it macro managment is really depends of how many units we have. When you manage 10 units - it is may be right spending of your time, then managing 100 - microing them can be really stupid - you spend too much time on it - so it does not give you enought in back.
Total annigilation for me is the game where number of units are during usual battle more then 100. So it makes it different vs all other RTS games. That is why i playing it
But ok - it is really personal - it just my point of view on what is godd in RTS. Someone should love microing, but not me.
Total annigilation for me is the game where number of units are during usual battle more then 100. So it makes it different vs all other RTS games. That is why i playing it
But ok - it is really personal - it just my point of view on what is godd in RTS. Someone should love microing, but not me.
"To mirco is to make qwick tatical desition to make your units fight better. To move artillery into to right position is microing. To move the wounded units back and cover the hole with fresh new units is microing. To make your units surrond a bulldog so it can't move is microing. "
other 2 cents:
1) "To move artillery into to right position is microing." Can it be done by ai? Easility - artelery should find out where it is safe and can attack the designeted target. Is it big task for AI? It is just look at 200 positions nealy and give and estimation for it. It iwll also move artelery out of range for short-range attackers.
2) "To move the wounded units back". Can be do easily by AI. Just stop attacking by it and start moving to repair platform/base, or just out of attacker.
3) "cover the hole with fresh new units ". Can be done by AI if AI knows formations. Like - i have a gap in formation, so what can i put in it? Aga - the closest unit is that one. Go to formation!
4) "To make your units surrond a bulldog so it can't move is microing". Dont think it is possible. But btw - when you need it. If you can't destroy it - it will kill you. Otherthise - if it can kill your "damager" units - it is all about formations aging.
So the point is AI can done a very good job - just need nice scripts for it. What can really can't be done by AI - is a strategy.
other 2 cents:
1) "To move artillery into to right position is microing." Can it be done by ai? Easility - artelery should find out where it is safe and can attack the designeted target. Is it big task for AI? It is just look at 200 positions nealy and give and estimation for it. It iwll also move artelery out of range for short-range attackers.
2) "To move the wounded units back". Can be do easily by AI. Just stop attacking by it and start moving to repair platform/base, or just out of attacker.
3) "cover the hole with fresh new units ". Can be done by AI if AI knows formations. Like - i have a gap in formation, so what can i put in it? Aga - the closest unit is that one. Go to formation!
4) "To make your units surrond a bulldog so it can't move is microing". Dont think it is possible. But btw - when you need it. If you can't destroy it - it will kill you. Otherthise - if it can kill your "damager" units - it is all about formations aging.
So the point is AI can done a very good job - just need nice scripts for it. What can really can't be done by AI - is a strategy.
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SwiftSpear
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XTA is almost never like that... and when it is it's almost always because both players porced... and then I send 5 krogoth to kill all thier peewees.sergey wrote:I would say - that micro or let's name it macro managment is really depends of how many units we have. When you manage 10 units - it is may be right spending of your time, then managing 100 - microing them can be really stupid - you spend too much time on it - so it does not give you enought in back.
Total annigilation for me is the game where number of units are during usual battle more then 100. So it makes it different vs all other RTS games. That is why i playing it
But ok - it is really personal - it just my point of view on what is godd in RTS. Someone should love microing, but not me.