It had to be done sometime.
Just put up what you think is bad with the balance in XTA, AND a way to fix it. Remebear, everything here is IMO, so don't start flaming becuase ''YOU ARE WRONG LOL! PEEEEEWEEESS RULEZ!''.
Be happy to comment on the other hand. But try to have a solution in mind =P.
I like the balance of XTA right now, but there are some things that bothers me. Brawlers. I say we just make Flakers a bigger area effect. Meaning that they can hit sevral brawlers clumted together. I think this should be added to MT to, but in a small form.
HLT less range since they have VERY long right now. Goliath's range decresed to compensate, and a litthe bonus for Mobile Artilery.
Qwestion: Should mobile artillery have more range, or more damage the merls? Arent artillery suposed to be long range but misses alot, and merls a litthe shorter range and better att hitting defences?
XTA Balance!
Moderator: Moderators
Mobile arty is fine right now, with missiles going farther than shells. (MLRS outranges howitzers by alot).
The problem is that HLTs have such high visible range, artillery must move into their visibility in order to attack them. In my opinion HLT visible range is a bug. No other unit has anything near that visibility.
Also the problem with Brawlers is that they don't take enough damage from anti air rockets and flak. THere must be better balance between flakkers, mobile flakkers and brawlers. Also, level 1 aa rockets still need to be more effective. Brawlers should be armored, but aa missiles of all types need to be dangerous to them. Currently the best brawler defense is lasers, which is a bit silly considering that lasers are doing a better job than AA.
The problem is that HLTs have such high visible range, artillery must move into their visibility in order to attack them. In my opinion HLT visible range is a bug. No other unit has anything near that visibility.
Also the problem with Brawlers is that they don't take enough damage from anti air rockets and flak. THere must be better balance between flakkers, mobile flakkers and brawlers. Also, level 1 aa rockets still need to be more effective. Brawlers should be armored, but aa missiles of all types need to be dangerous to them. Currently the best brawler defense is lasers, which is a bit silly considering that lasers are doing a better job than AA.
not really ever play OTA? LLTs and HLTs were great vs Brawlers...
Anyways, since the main brawler complaint is swarms i think that kixxe is (partly
) right missiles should have (A EXTREMELY SMALL) AOE so that if brawlers are used in extremely tightly packed swarms they can be creamed by cheap lvl1 AA and this should force players to use them to raid and defend their base or spread them out and attack multiple things in the base (all good imo) also agreed flakkers should have say +33% AoE? they don't do too much damage atm and aren't as good at taking down brawlers as they should be for their cost (however MOBILE flakkers should have say a 20% or so bonus against brawlers as they will be needed to counter players using brawlers for defense)
Oh and if i haven't mentioned it ALL TRACES of existance of metal maps should be DESTROYED...it may just be my opinion but they screw gameplay right up. and if theres a good looking game up and its on a (UGLY, FEATURELESS, BORING) metal map which removes all skill and fun from the game i won't join unless paid
Anyways, since the main brawler complaint is swarms i think that kixxe is (partly
) right missiles should have (A EXTREMELY SMALL) AOE so that if brawlers are used in extremely tightly packed swarms they can be creamed by cheap lvl1 AA and this should force players to use them to raid and defend their base or spread them out and attack multiple things in the base (all good imo) also agreed flakkers should have say +33% AoE? they don't do too much damage atm and aren't as good at taking down brawlers as they should be for their cost (however MOBILE flakkers should have say a 20% or so bonus against brawlers as they will be needed to counter players using brawlers for defense)Oh and if i haven't mentioned it ALL TRACES of existance of metal maps should be DESTROYED...it may just be my opinion but they screw gameplay right up. and if theres a good looking game up and its on a (UGLY, FEATURELESS, BORING) metal map which removes all skill and fun from the game i won't join unless paid
If you complaning about Flakkers firing at ground units, then we could just make them first priorty to attack brawlers... Isent that alredy implented btw?I would say we definitely need to do the same as Uberhack with AA. It attacks air units only. It's not right that aa units are attacking ground targets while planes are flying above them.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
In general, what i don't like in XTA is the units sizes.
In oTA, a Flash was 100 metal, a Buldog 400 (4x) and a Goliath 600 (6x).
But in XTA, the scale is much wider:
Flash 100 M, Buldog 1300 (13x) and a Goliath 4600 (46x).
Especially the heavier units have gone very big, like the Buldog 3 times bigger and the Goliath beeing 7 time biger than in oTA.
Many times i miss the usage of masses of units like those endless fields of samsons. Other times, i find anoying how big some units are.
Still, it's no big deal.
In oTA, a Flash was 100 metal, a Buldog 400 (4x) and a Goliath 600 (6x).
But in XTA, the scale is much wider:
Flash 100 M, Buldog 1300 (13x) and a Goliath 4600 (46x).
Especially the heavier units have gone very big, like the Buldog 3 times bigger and the Goliath beeing 7 time biger than in oTA.
Many times i miss the usage of masses of units like those endless fields of samsons. Other times, i find anoying how big some units are.
Still, it's no big deal.
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Justin Case
- Posts: 68
- Joined: 16 Sep 2004, 18:08
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
I noticed that flakkers seem VASTLY less accurate than in OTA. Even gunships that are near stationary are rarely hit. Most often the explosion if a brawkler-lenght or more away...
That would explain the horrible efficiency vs isolated (as in "not swarm") brawlers that causes this "a flakker is killed by 4 lone brawlers" stories.
That would explain the horrible efficiency vs isolated (as in "not swarm") brawlers that causes this "a flakker is killed by 4 lone brawlers" stories.
Oh, and i must express my disliking of Jeffys/weasels.
They have to much HP!
Yes, in terms of metal and energy, it's cheaper to build flashes..
BUT jeffys and weasels can outrun these flashes, and cause IMENSE damage!
The meaning of jeffys is 1. to scout, and 2. to raid. But they are undermining normal attacks with other units!
Anyone playing XTA here? Who builds a jeffy as their first attack vechile?
Im sorry, but the ultimate rading tool should not exsist... there should be sevral reson to choose diffrent veichels for your first attack. Using flashes for
when you need to use many units, and have an army with HP, Jeffys if you want to attack with small amount of units, and have small hp at the price of speed...
...
Wait, thats how it is now >.<
But still ignore that part... Jeffys rule to much, they are to fast to furius...
OR maybe pepole are just over using em and dosent understand the power of building 3 flashes at the time and money to build a jeffy (you even get metal over!)....
They have to much HP!
Yes, in terms of metal and energy, it's cheaper to build flashes..
BUT jeffys and weasels can outrun these flashes, and cause IMENSE damage!
The meaning of jeffys is 1. to scout, and 2. to raid. But they are undermining normal attacks with other units!
Anyone playing XTA here? Who builds a jeffy as their first attack vechile?
Im sorry, but the ultimate rading tool should not exsist... there should be sevral reson to choose diffrent veichels for your first attack. Using flashes for
when you need to use many units, and have an army with HP, Jeffys if you want to attack with small amount of units, and have small hp at the price of speed...
...
Wait, thats how it is now >.<
But still ignore that part... Jeffys rule to much, they are to fast to furius...
OR maybe pepole are just over using em and dosent understand the power of building 3 flashes at the time and money to build a jeffy (you even get metal over!)....
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
I have to agree kixxe. It's very difficult to counter an early weasle rush, or even a freaker rush for that matter. The fast units don't have the "die in 2 hits" properties they used to, making tanks and other ground based defences frustratingly useless. You are forced to either severly cripple your build by pushing a LLT in somewhere between your metal/solar/klab-vplant or just rely on dgun to defend your base early on 100 percent. Commanders are tough, but they shouldn't need to be the end all be all of early base defence. We need a more viable L1 unit stomper to build in the early game... Probably best suited to having an accurate high damage weapon with intense reload time.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
I have a few problems with XTA.
1. I totally agree that weasels have too much life. The reason is that units can no longer shoot over each other, so an LLT isn't what it used to be. They should have 20% less life but get built 10% quicker.
2. Brawlers have too much life. Just by about 10-15% percent, but there it is. By making them crapper, you're not really hurting porcers, just adding more skill to it, because bombers/ground raids need to be used together with gunships to be effective. Just make a small change, about 10%, and if players respond positively to the change, then that's good, if not, it's not tough to change back.
3. Radars kind of suck. Why should a mobile radar have a radius bigger than a stationary one? The basic radar needs to have the radius of the mobile one.
Infact, personally I think ALL radars/sonars in OTA and XTA need to be enlarged by about 20%.
Anyway, I haven't heard anyone bitch about radars, so I doubt this will be implemented, but what's more important than any one change is that we actually get XTA modified; right now I get the feeling we are just talking without getting any closer to our goal.
If the SY's could arrange for 2-3 elite players (damn, I wish I was pro
)to make some very small tweaks to XTA, all documented, and then have an ongoing project whereby those players release a new version of XTA every month or so, with very small changes every time where they see neccessary.
You could even make a rule: no stat can be changed by more than 5% per release. So no one can bitch that a change has screwed up the game, but we do actually slowly get somewhere.
Well, that's my two cents.
1. I totally agree that weasels have too much life. The reason is that units can no longer shoot over each other, so an LLT isn't what it used to be. They should have 20% less life but get built 10% quicker.
2. Brawlers have too much life. Just by about 10-15% percent, but there it is. By making them crapper, you're not really hurting porcers, just adding more skill to it, because bombers/ground raids need to be used together with gunships to be effective. Just make a small change, about 10%, and if players respond positively to the change, then that's good, if not, it's not tough to change back.
3. Radars kind of suck. Why should a mobile radar have a radius bigger than a stationary one? The basic radar needs to have the radius of the mobile one.
Infact, personally I think ALL radars/sonars in OTA and XTA need to be enlarged by about 20%.
Anyway, I haven't heard anyone bitch about radars, so I doubt this will be implemented, but what's more important than any one change is that we actually get XTA modified; right now I get the feeling we are just talking without getting any closer to our goal.
If the SY's could arrange for 2-3 elite players (damn, I wish I was pro
)to make some very small tweaks to XTA, all documented, and then have an ongoing project whereby those players release a new version of XTA every month or so, with very small changes every time where they see neccessary.You could even make a rule: no stat can be changed by more than 5% per release. So no one can bitch that a change has screwed up the game, but we do actually slowly get somewhere.
Well, that's my two cents.