A nemises for the Krogath?

[Pxtl]

in AA, the Arm has the "Orcone" which is an Arm Krogoth. Absolute Annihilation is a lot more like Dune II balancing - the two sides have similar units for most of the things, but there are a few special units that make things wierd. For example, Core has a stun-fighter, and Arm has an L1 gunship. Personally, I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for Caydr to port AA to Spring.

Personally, I'd take a different approach for an Arm L3 unit - make the arm L3 unit be super-factory. A ludicrously expensive factory - something that costs 2-3x as much as a Krogoth. And it makes small units. But make those small units obscenely powerful and quick to build. So, once the player gets his "swarm factory" up, the Arm pours forth an unstoppable horde of ultra-K-bots. Just break the Krogoth into parts and make the Swarm units - one little unit has a Gauss cannon, one has a Krog rocket, one has an Annihilator. All are tough, fast, and nasty. To make them look different, make them freakishly tall and skinny, like AT-ST's or the War of the Worlds walkers.

[SinbadEV]

Or even better, make them look like bits of a krogoth monted on pee-wees... annihilator coming from the eyes of a krog head on a peewee body or rockets coming from a rocko retrofitted with a krogoths missile pack... to go with the whole rebel feel of ARM forces...

[BadMan]

The Arm Orcone was made by MAD TA. It was a counter to the Core Krangeth (sp) which is the krog's bigger, nastier brother. (which was also made by MAD TA)

A lot of unit packs include MAD TA's units because they are pretty talanted people. But anyway, this topic has been discussed countless times.

[Pxtl]

The Orcone, from MadTA, included in Absolute Annihilation.

[Pxtl]

The Arm Orcone was made by MAD TA. It was a counter to the Core Krangeth (sp) which is the krog's bigger, nastier brother. (which was also made by MAD TA)

A lot of unit packs include MAD TA's units because they are pretty talanted people. But anyway, this topic has been discussed countless times.

I'm curious, was the original MAD TA Orcone as large as the AA Orcone? Was the Karganeth (I think that's the name) just a larger Krogoth? Because in AA, the Krogoth has been resized to be much larger, and there's a smaller unit called the "Karganeth" which I assume was the original MadTA super-unit.

If you've never played AA (or MadTA) the Orcone/Krogoth in AA is _HUGE_. The unit has been resized to be as physically imposing as it is powerful.

[BlackLiger]

RADAR JAMMING, PEOPLE. Kroggs can't shoot at what they can't see/detect, meaning if you jam them, you can have defences waiting.... (Sentinels, Guardians and Ambushers do rather well, mixed, in all of my tests)

[Masse]

DEFENCE AINT THE ISSUE ! they are rather easily destroyed with proper use of annihilators and snipers BUT WHAT IF THE PLAYER DEFENCES HES BASE WITH KROGOTHS ! thats the problem here... u really cant destroy them from enemys base

and arm dont need big ass bullys we want just something that can harm the krogoth when its in defending enemy base...

[Pxtl]

Lots and lots of berthas. Actually, once you have the berthas, you can ignore the Krogoth and chew his base up anyways. Or nuke 'im until he's got no anti-nukes anymore. The Krogoth is a cool, cool machine, but it exists at a tech level you should never reach. Most games should end earlier due to bombardment. People just don't because using ground-units is more "fun" - but if you're gonna leave out the artillery onslaught, then you may as well do without the Krog too.

[FizWizz]

I still like my Penetrator Mk.II type-of-idea =(. ARM doesn't really have seige units of any sort (Ravens? not really...). I'm not suggesting something that would whip Krogoths, or even match them one-to-one, but just some sort of seige engine

[Pxtl]

Bombers. Lots of bombers. IIRC, the Krog's AA defense isn't spectcacular. Dunno how well this works in Spring, but I used it a few times in Absolute Annihilation.

Of course, that means you have to take out any supporting AA defenses. Which is what artillery is for.

[Lindir The Green]

That's why I said INDERECT counter.

I didn't mean that you should use them against krogoths, I meant that you should use them to have a better economy than your opponent and prevent them from getting a krogoth by killing them first.

Once they have a krogoth, it SHOULD be hard to kill.

I think it adds an interesting dynamic to make ARM better than CORE, until CORE gets super-weapons up.

[Optimus Prime]

so you want to have a game thats all the time unbalanced? o.O
In Tech 1 and 2 Arm shall be better than Core and in Tech 3 Core shall rock Arm or what???
So all rushers take Arm and the Players who like long games (like me) shall take core and if they dont do so, they are in the wrong game? Is that what u want to say? -.-

[Zoombie]

What about the EMP nuke? There the Krogoth is frozen and you can move in with imputy.

[Lindir The Green]

No, I say that CORE has the advantage late game IF ARM doesn't push early game and make it so that it has a better economy.

[SinbadEV]

yeah... if the emp nuke hit's near the krogoth at all... you need a few DTs to keep it still long enough to hit the thing

[Fritokane]

i'm hoping the SY's ignore this entire thread ¬.¬ no collision spheres? lol go back to OTA then, don't like xta kroggies? post a spam free thread ABOUT kroggies saying BALANCE ISSUE: KROGS and then take ages making a post which makes sense, and why a krog can beat its cost of DT and anni's well placed, let alone the sheer BT u have! krogs take forever
and late late late game where u can pump a krog a min they are a gamewinner as they are supposed to be, if a game i play gets to that point i'll be GLAD to see that krog x,x

Translation:

I hope the SY's ignore this entire thread. The following reasons why there aren't any direct counters:
1) The equivalent metal/energy in strategically placed annihilators and dragons teeth overwhelms and destroys a krogoth.
2) Krogoths are a late game tool, and should remain a unit that should be reserved for games that last longer than an hour or on maps with obscene metal and energy output.

To the person that said "No collision spheres": I believe that they add a new sense of tactics to the game, and removing them would strip any sense of originality from this game.

Anyways, if it gets to the point that krogoths are being produced every minute, then the game is nearly over at that point, and I'm happy to see the Krogoth, as I probably want to get on with my life.

I'm pretty sure you broke more than a few laws when you brutally murdered the English language there, Min3mat :)

[FireCrack]

^Thank you!

[SwiftSpear]

- Brawlers are fine, but flak can kill em very fast so u can counter em easyly.
- Penetrators SUCK (their weapon is weak and they cant shoot over themselve): you need nearly a minute to kill a gol, than think how long u need for a Krog -.-.
- Berthas against Krogs and Gols? Thats not funny
- FARKS against Gols and Krogs? U know what a Krogoth is? o.O
- Arm Annihilator is sup OK, but like i said u can only use it to defend.

Your list says nothing because arm can have 1000 Units better than 1000 Core Units. If Core has only 2 units which are much better than all the others from arm. And thats it like it is at the moment.

A direct counter for a krogoth would make no sense, but ARM already has many inderect counters.

Why that? In OTA you have a lot counterunits which all make sense... and other RTS games have counterunits too which all make sense. Otherwise you build only the best unit and spam them in masses cause u know that they can handle everything.

The only decicively better unit core has is the krogoth. The other high power core units have exorbidant costs and move frustratingly slow. They are VERY defeatable. I much prefer bulldogs.

[Kaptain.Kryptek]

nah man, Krogoths aren't that hot, i was versing my bro at TA and i got a Krogoth, he kust cloaked his comm and D-Gun-ed me twice.
and even if you don't have a comm, there's always other ways...

[Optimus Prime]

The only decicively better unit core has is the krogoth. The other high power core units have exorbidant costs and move frustratingly slow. They are VERY defeatable. I much prefer bulldogs.

no. Perhaps you won against a coreplayer because u had the better economy, but else a big mass gols will win against a big mass of Bulls (with the same Pricevolume). Like I said are big strong units much better than a lot of weak units with the same pricevolume, else the krog wouldnt be such a problem too. He has a terrible price/stenght ratio in comparison with Bulldogs... i show you.

(I dont pick speed and range cause in direkt fights you dont notice them a lot)

Bulldog: Damage p. Sec: ~105 HP: 8383 Cost: 1308

Goliath: Damage p. Sec: ~394 HP: 22920 Cost: 4650

Krogoth: Damage p. Sec: ~1376 (3 weapons) HP: 105250 Cost: 30950


So a Bulldog is 3.5 times cheaper than a Goliath.
The Goliath has ~3.7 times more Damage and 2.7 times more HP.

The Krogoth is 23.6 times more expensive as the Bulldog.
BUT he has only 13.1 times more damage and only 12 times more HP.

What I want to say is that strong Units with doubled strengh and (only) doubled costs are much more usefull than the weak ones. Of course u notice that only in big combats with more than 20 Units, but than you will see that strong Units are much better. Else no one should ever build the Krogoth because of its unrentable Cost/Strenght ratio like i demonstrated. One other Argument is that for example 4 Bulls vs a Gol dont have constant damageoutput. Everytime a Bulldog dies their damageoutput is reduced and the Gol can shoot with all his power all the time.

I dont say that you cant beat Gols, but in mid or lategames, they are much better than the weak Bulldogs and the Krog is much better than Gols in lategame.