Can two mice == two cursors?

[ScarySquirrel]

And you really think this is worth to be in the players FAQ wiki???

Yes, jK, I do.

[ScarySquirrel]

But two springs doesn't let you select with one, order with the other, etc.

Yeah right, my suggestion is no prefect replacement for what he wants.

And why in the world would you write a post half as long as his without taking the fraction of that much time to read all of his?

from the beginning of his post, i got the impression that he writes in much details.
-> in too much detail for me
-> estimated gain not worth reading all
... something like that

Heaven forbid we have to sift through any of those pesky details.

[ScarySquirrel]

Subject: Can two mice == two cursors?

Who here actually read my post?

I did. You still don't have three hands and the ability to use two mice as well as you would like to think.

Four hands if you want to use the keyboard properly.

1. Thank you for reading teh post.
2. Most keyboard shortcuts have a crude GUI analog, and vice versa, right? For instance, although pressing ctrl-b gets you an idle builder quickly, one can hunt around for one with a mouse or use the IDLEBuilders Lua.
3. Hence, I suspect that the use of two mice might present some interesting "multi-tasking" options which differ from the usual keyboard+mouse combination.
4. Let the record show that I do not mean that any player who replaced his usual keyboard+mouse interface with a double cursor+mouse setup would increase his level of in-game performance or even maintain it.
5. It would be really cool though.

[ScarySquirrel]

i'm afraid not, since the idea is... eccentric.

Yeah, well YOU're eccentric. *cries*

[ScarySquirrel]

there's a modified multicursor X server somewhere, seen videos of several cursors in action.

5. ... For some simple modern examples see the following:
...
Read about the Multi Pointer X Window System [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPX], or look at their own site: [http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/]

Free candy for anyone who reads the post.

Code: Select all

End Post Spam

[imbaczek]

yeah, yeah, i've read the post after i posted myself. sorry about that.

[IllvilJa]

Ok, I won't get any free candy but here comes a quick wrench in the works for this discussion:

Everyone is hung up on whether or not one single human can maintain meaningful control of two mice if that were implemented in Spring. Being an old timer remembering the days when I owned a Commodore 64 and an Amiga, multiple pointing devices (ok, two of them) were commonplace in various games. Of course, it were intended that each pointing device were used by one person each.

Which brings me down to the wrench in the works I'm contributing with: it WOULD be a point with multiple pointers for one Spring player client. Sure, you would benefit from a split personality so the solution is: multiple persons in front of the computer! One person running kbd + mouse, another person assisting with yet another mouse.

Could kick a little ass sometimes, somewhere, wouldn't it?

Ok, this were my contribution to the Spring forum community for this week... stay tuned for the next single post next week.

(Real life in form of family and work commitments REALLY keeps me lightyears away from Spring, Freeciv, personal insane game hacking etc and will do for a month or two.... but that's just the way it is, it's a good real life so no point in complaining!)

Edit: oooh, could not resist a little edit here. Of course, this COULD inflict some serious ass kicking if combined with my favourite anti-feature... the FPS mode! Imagine one vehicle with multiple turrets! One player drives with keyboard and controls one turret with mice+kbd, other assisting player next to him using same screen controls another turret using HIS mouse. Sure, would require split 3D-views and rearchitecturing the spring engine so it probably get irreversibly cratered in the proces but my god, it would be a great feature to try out!

[REVENGE]

I would be all for multi-touch support, since I am getting a HP tx2z. If Spring would handle multi-touch input, I'd lua up a multi-touch interface myself.

[aegis]

it can, but ugh, the hp's multitouch is handled terribly (it will supposedly run better on windows 7)

[REVENGE]

it can, but ugh, the hp's multitouch is handled terribly (it will supposedly run better on windows 7)

Windows 7 will be designed for system-wide use of multi-touch. HP's software ain't bad, for an OEM's lame attempt at proprietary UI software.

[ScarySquirrel]

5 Conclusions from the 50 Posts So Far
1. Although whether a two mouse setup would improve game performance is not decided, humans can and do understand several ways of using more than one two dimensional input at once.

The human brain has the ability to perform multiple tasks simultaneously while keeping the goals of all tasks in mind. People who have trouble doing this have not had practice.

...pretty sure that it is possible to train that, but it would be insane to do that, not just because it would need a lot of time playing spring, but if spring is the only place you could use it, you would be have an insane relation to spring

2. Several Operating Systems already have implementations of "multi-touch" interfaces done, as an option, or in the works.

Windows 7 will be designed for system-wide use of multi-touch. HP's software ain't bad, for an OEM's lame attempt at proprietary UI software.

it can, but ugh, the hp's multitouch is handled terribly (it will supposedly run better on windows 7)

3. A Lua Script for a Multi-Touch or Two Pointer Interface Is Practical

I would be all for multi-touch support, since I am getting a HP tx2z. If Spring would handle multi-touch input, I'd lua up a multi-touch interface myself.

4. But At Least One Developer is not Exactly Enthusiastic about Including it in the Engine...

...since the idea is... eccentric.

5. ... and Spring, Apparently, Has Basic Features yet to Add

it would be cool if someone made proper dual-monitor support for spring (supported by opengl 2.0 or any card with dual ramdacs)

Agreed. I have two monitors for ages and I can't play with both cause we need to use the "extended mode". The dual view (different res and refresh rate) support "à la supcom" would be a god gift.

Thanks to the quoted members above, and to those whose names follow, this discussion has actually followed something like a line:
lurker
Wisse
SinbadEV

[KingRaptor]

Conclusion of Conclusion

Maek Patch

[imbaczek]

Maek Patch

pretty much.

the point here is that it's not trivial, actually pretty far away from that. SDL AFAIK doesn't have any support for multiple pointers, and that's what we'd use for non-windows systems, right? i've personally have no idea how to add a second pointer under windows, either; that i think the idea is eccentric is of no consequence since i'd like to see myself wrong in that regard and would provide any help i could. which isn't much - see above.

tldr: sorry, i don't know how to do that and i believe it won't be of much help, but i'd like to see it working just because it sounds cool.

[Hoi]

You could get another computer and comshare with yourself

[Krux]

There is a game that can do this

That is the multiplayer of Settlers 2

[aegis]

Maek Patch

pretty much.

the point here is that it's not trivial, actually pretty far away from that. SDL AFAIK doesn't have any support for multiple pointers, and that's what we'd use for non-windows systems, right? i've personally have no idea how to add a second pointer under windows, either; that i think the idea is eccentric is of no consequence since i'd like to see myself wrong in that regard and would provide any help i could. which isn't much - see above.

tldr: sorry, i don't know how to do that and i believe it won't be of much help, but i'd like to see it working just because it sounds cool.

the trick is - you don't use the operating system's pointer interface for the second and later pointers...