Can two mice == two cursors?

[ScarySquirrel]

I have two eyes.

I have two hands.

I have two USB mice.

I even have two monitors.

I have two mission-critical attacks, on opposite ends of the map.

Could I have two cursors on one or two screens so I can truly multitask?

Just a thought.

1. I've tried a ps/2 mouse and a usb mouse in windows, but it just added their movements. Both controlled the same cursor.

2. Almost any Application Programming Interface today only focuses one Graphical interface unit at a time as far as I know.

3. The possibilities are head exploding, like GUI buttons that would act like the current modifier keys. For example, shift-rightclick would be click and hold <some button> while performing action with other cursor; widgets that could make lines between two points held by their respective mouse cursors, things like that.

4. I found the following research on the idea:
people are thinking about it:
http://www.sis.uncc.edu/~...tium_Paper_files/doct.pdf
and
http://www.sis.uncc.edu/~...files/drivingpaper_wd.pdf

5. Google "toolglass" for some some interesting work on two-handed interfaces doneby Bill Buton about ten years ago.
For some simple modern examples see the following: http://grouplab.cpsc.ucal....php?n=Toolkits.Toolglass (uses a .Net toolkit)
http://www.wunderworks.com/public/home.aspx
Read about the Multi Pointer X Window System [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPX], or look at their own site: [http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/]

6. In Linux, at least, if the mice show up as two different devices, this could be done.
If one mouse showed up as /dev/input/mice and the other as /dev/input/mice2, add a new "Section InputDevice2" to xorg.conf and it could work.

7. Lastly, two people could play on the same computer for the same team, each using one of the mice at the same time, similarly to time crisis for the ps2. (http://www.thunderboltgames.com/reviews ... sis3_3.jpg)

[ScarySquirrel]

P.S. For all the haters, you know who you are , I state the following disclaimers, reservations, and rebuttals:

1. I can see how you could perhaps create a program that understood how to operate using two mice, but it would also have to somehow override what the operating system does.
Implementing two cursors in a specific program like Spring sounds even more difficult (i won't say impossible).

2. I would worry about users confusion as to which mouse was moving which cursor, but something like different colors or shapes could solve this.

3. Yes, it's just not feasible to re-implement the whole concept of how to interact with an interface from ground up. However, this need not occur to get two cursors in one full screen game application.

4. Yes, commercially, only academic institutions or companies able to afford such an investment can do this, but Spring is an entirely different animal.

5. Maybe two regular mice might not help you multi-task, but not two hands. we do it all the time. It could even make things more confusing but, it would be really cool. Imagine using one cursor to control the economy device and the other mouse to push buttons and manipulate your attack force.
It would be the next step before virtual gloves.

6. "You can't concentrate at 2 different thoughts at once even if you had 2 mouse pointers. The best you can do is switch your concentration quickly back and fourth between the tasks and then you might just as well switch the pointer back and fourth too." In many cases, using two cursors could make some actions more natural. One could use one cursor to select units and the other to tell them where to go, perhaps without even zooming out or scrolling. According to studies in NLP the average human can hold 7 plus or minus 2 chunks of information in our conscious thinking at any one time. Even far more with "automotive" training, like when driving a car for example.

7. A "dominant" cursor would solve menu selection problems, and others. If two things are being selected, one with each mouse, the dominant mouse could select. To distinguish between the two, the dominant one could be larger and one colour, blue, and the other could be smaller and a different colour, red.

[ScarySquirrel]

This probably seems like an information dump, so to those of you who do not want to reply to everything at once, I offer the following reply format:

1. [A reason that it would work, an application of this feature, or, if you are a game programmer, an implementation idea]

2. [A reason that it will not work, or that it is not feasable, etc.]

[lurker]

Hold several pieces of information, act on them if linked, but you can't do two unrelated things at the same time. And it doesn't matter how many eyes you have when you can only look at one spot.

[hoijui]

(didd not read all your post)

i am pretty sure that it is possible to train that, but it would be insane to do that, not just because it would need a lot of time playing spring, but if spring is the only place you could use it, you would be have an insane relation to spring, being the only worthwhile thing to do, maybe.
With a second tough... if you could train that with spring, and then use it in the real world aswell it could be NAISS :D
i have always (with the touch of a button) wondered if it is possible to get schizophrenic (in the fight club way: meaning: having two personalities). this could be a good start.

...looking at it from a more practical point of view:
maybe you could try to run spring once in the native OS, and once in a virtual machine on your computer, and do a com-share. let the native spring run on one monitor, the virtual one on the other. i have no idea if it is possible to use one mouse for the native OS and one separately for the virtual one, but i guess it is more likely to see that then to see double mouse support for spring.
option number two:
get a second computer (as you have everything else doubled already), and play with com-sharing. i am sure that at least one of your monitors will have two inputs, so you can still use the two for one computer, and only when you want to play spring switch the input port of the second to use the second computer.

[lurker]

It probably wouldn't be that hard to find some way to lock a mouse to a single program and then run two springs without the slowness of a vm.
But two springs doesn't let you select with one, order with the other, etc.
And why in the world would you write a post half as long as his without taking the fraction of that much time to read all of his?

[hoijui]

But two springs doesn't let you select with one, order with the other, etc.

Yeah right, my suggestion is no prefect replacement for what he wants.

And why in the world would you write a post half as long as his without taking the fraction of that much time to read all of his?

from the beginning of his post, i got the impression that he writes in much details.
-> in too much detail for me
-> estimated gain not worth reading all
... something like that

[Sabutai]

Comshare anyone?

Windows 7 supports multitouch. And im gonna get both.

[imbaczek]

there's a modified multicursor X server somewhere, seen videos of several cursors in action.

[jK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvT7_gs3RwY

[imbaczek]

woah, that's nice!

[ZellSF]

That's awesome. As for the feature request: you might think so but you are NOT capable of effectively using two mice alone, especially considering you have to use your keyboard often too.

[ScarySquirrel]

Who here actually read my post?

[imbaczek]

i'm afraid not, since the idea is... eccentric.

[lurker]

Ooh! Ooh! Pick me!

[ZellSF]

Who here actually read my post?

I did. You still don't have three hands and the ability to use two mice as well as you would like to think.

[SinbadEV]

TL;DR but

http://cpnmouse.sourceforge.net/install.html

have tested it before and it truly allows multiple mouse input... for this input to be useful one would likely need to write up some keen new code (though LUA might be able to handle it) otherwise the second mouse is a "virtual" mouse and it can't click at the same time as the other one (when the second mouse is clicked the hardware mouse is moved temporarily to the new location and generates the mouse event there while causing the other mouse to become "virtual")

[lurker]

Who here actually read my post?

I did. You still don't have three hands and the ability to use two mice as well as you would like to think.

Four hands if you want to use the keyboard properly.

[aegis]

Hold several pieces of information, act on them if linked, but you can't do two unrelated things at the same time.

not true.


also, about this topic... I have basic design specs in my head of how to do a multi-input/multitouch interface for spring in lua (since I have been experimenting with both input methods)


and although you might not be able to use two mice effectively (mental mapping of a coordinate plane from desk surface to monitor surface probably doesn't play well when done multiple times simultaneously), something like a lightpen or a touch-screen monitor could benefit from multiple simultaneous inputs

[Wisse]

@ScarySquirrel: Plz come and play some proper games. Like 1v1 for example. I promise you that won't be able to handle one "mission critical" attack with one mouse and whole keyboard.

I don't see how you could even play with 2 mice. In spring you need to use keyboard plus I don't think you could control 2 groups better than I can with 1 screen and one mouse couse I have time to mentally adapt when I'm switching map positions when you would just get very confused looking both ways all the time. But than again you could be alot better at multitasking, who knows.