License of Operation Polaris 0.5

[smoth]

Well if you refuse to acknowledge abstract/metaphorical arguments, I'll put it in absolute terms. It is his content. He does not wish to share some of his rights of intellectual property. He has the legal right to do this and obviously isn't going to change his mind because of the complaints of a few people, who do not own the intellectual property and thus have no control over it. End of story.

Or regret could hand over his money, I can always use more money.

[Centipede]

He can't realistically enforce any of his rights on said property. Story continues!

edit: also yeah, I refuse to accept abstract arguments unrelated to what I said.

if thats the view of this community, then...you know, I have a torque indy license and torque RTS license sitting around not doing anything

I'm reasonably sure the torque community isn't one to steal everything that isn't nailed down, then go find some crowbars


jesus you people are insane

[smoth]

maybe regret should hand his money to you then, those death squads don't pay for themselves and my swamp fire is free.

[smoth]

I am so tired of hearing that. Fang made MOST of ee within a year. and it has 4 factions.

I am sorry but I think no one wants to commit to the real work. >:|

If its really hard to work for, then its probably not worth working for at all.

Tell me that is sarcasm.

Panties, didn't the back story for this start as some crazy story in T&D? I cannot remember.

[Centipede]

I can't either, I think it as mostly just techno and geopoliticalbabble excuses to have a really cool wargame

[Satirik]

who cares about Operation Polaris license ? it won't be played anyway, even if he was smart enough to allow every single people crazy enough to want to improve it, it would not be played ... why ? because it sucks ? it's not nice and the gameplay sucks ... even mods with great graphics and good game play are not sure to get players ...

BA is played because it's like TA++++++, so it's a very good game with years of balance, tweaking and improvement. People play it not because it's free (except some linux fanboys who can't play anything but free game) but because it's a FUCKING good game, better than most commercial RTS games

what i mean is, stop making new mods, just try to improve existing ones, or get people to work on yours, if you want players, trust me, it won't be easy

[Centipede]

all I want is to make a pretty cool war game, nothing more nothing less, I could give two shits about who is playing what

tl;dr: OP is a monument to me, by me, for me

[Sleksa]

Imagine how many people, and how much time and effort it takes to create a single loaf of bread. Now imagine you could effortlessly and without any cost duplicate that bread ad infinitum. Imagine how many people that would help, all those starving for a loaf of bread but lacking the ability/skill/power to create or buy it.

Call the romans, we have a jesus here!

tl;dr: OP is a monument to me, by me, for me

it looks pretty awesome, gg wp

[Pxtl]

The only time I saw an IP dispute in the Spring community was when a flying saucer was ripped into Supreme Annihilation (or was it Tired Annihilation? Whatever), and the whole community BAWWWWWed until the problem was fixed.

You have to realize that the Spring engine started out being focussed on ripped TA content. Since then it's diversified, but most of the core mods are based on that ripped code. As such, we're a little sketchy when it comes to TA IP, but otherwise we're as respectable to content rights as any other tightly-knit community.

The only other nasty part is the issue of licenses. You see, as an Open Source project, people want to encourage developers to make their content compatible with Open Source operating systems. That means sticking to well-known licenses with no legal compatibility issues, instead of just saying "Yeah, Steve can use my code". That means there's a lot of legalese flying around amongs the content developers.

Finally, the problem is that Spring is GPL'd. Now, any reasonable person knows that the GPL was meant to apply to the engine and not anything running in the engine. In fact, most reasonable people also take that meaning from the GPL license itself. However, GPL spokespeople have said different. This puts it into a legally gray area.

If you want to be 100% safe, you should GPL your Lua and BOS content, but are free to license your graphical content under any license you see fit. Since your BOS (and, to a lesser extent, Lua) are nigh-useless without your models, then you remain safe from outright thievery.

However, everybody realistically knows that that is paranoid. Nobody who worked on the Spring engine ever had any intent of forcing modders to GPL their work, and thus will never enforce the license. Plus, it's quite likely that the license can't be used for running content like that, since it really isn't fair to say that, say, PURE is a derivative work of the Spring engine.

So ultimately, you're free to license your work however you see fit. The community will not complain if you use OTA ripped content, but they will not be happy if you steal anything from other Spring modders or other hobbyist developers. The impact of that "unhappiness" is unknown, but iirc Tired's rip got kicked off of Unknown-Files.

Personally, I like the LGPL, but you do whatever you like. Please, at the very least, be clear and use CreativeCommons-Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs. That's a restrictive license that allows people to redistribute your package AND NOTHING ELSE, and your name must remain tied to it. Then there is no ambiguity - players know they can hand your mod around, and modders (and packagers for Linux distros) know that it is hands off.

Forgive me if I misremembered that debacle with Tired stealing that unit.

Oh, and Regret's just being a dick. Yes, he can steal your shit - but nobody in the Spring community would touch a game with stolen mod-work with a 10-foot-pole.

[Regret]

jesus you people are insane

Yea I'm totally insane for wanting people to use the free infinite resources that are just laying on the floor.

You're insane with your copyright and permission bullshit for limiting creativity.

[smoth]

lol
/me hands satirik an icepack.

you know dude, it is funny how most of the the extauites do it because we want to and most springtards want us to do it for their imaginary popularity contests.

and the ufo was stolen from the tau community project talon. The model was taken even after the author said NO.

Yea I'm totally insane for wanting people to use the free infinite resources that are just laying on the floor.

You are insane to think you have any right to anyone else's work.

You're insane with your copyright and permission bullshit for limiting creativity

He isn't limiting creativity if anything you are by not making your own shit and trying to force people to give you thiers. *edit* so why don't you do the work you lazy hypocrite? Why don't you put the time and effort into making shit if you so strongly believe people should spend years of their life feeding leaches.

[Regret]

He isn't limiting creativity if anything you are by not making your own shit and trying to force people to give you thiers. *edit* so why don't you do the work you lazy hypocrite? Why don't you put the time and effort into making shit if you so strongly believe people should spend years of their life feeding leaches.

Imagine how many people, and how much time and effort it takes to create a single loaf of bread. Now imagine you could effortlessly and without any cost duplicate that bread ad infinitum. Imagine how many people that would help, all those starving for a loaf of bread but lacking the ability/skill/power to create or buy it.

Think of the mod/game content as of bread, and the starvation being the lack of resources to express thoughts, ideas, art.

When it doesn't harm anyone or cost anything, why should anyone limit the flow of creative and open minded thought? Just because some people made the loaf of bread, doesn't mean they have the right to deny others to benefit from it without causing harm to anyone.

I'm not forcing anyone, I'm saying it's retarded to deny others to use something like that. Even more so when you can't in any way stop them from using it.

edit: you did not make your content for the leeches, but that doesn't mean they should be denied to leech of it to create something else. Denying them that wont do any good as they lack the skill to create something like that in the first place, but could create something different and maybe even equally original thanks to the leeched content.

[Centipede]

if its bread you want go make bread

if you want content, lern2maekcontentlol

[Regret]

Ignorant child.

One week. "No personal attacks" means no personal attacks.

[smoth]

edit: you did not make your content for the leeches, but that doesn't mean they should be denied to leech of it to create something else. Denying them that wont do any good as they lack the skill to create something like that in the first place, but could create something different and maybe even equally original thanks to the leeched content.

Regret, that example is bullshit and has nothing to do with the discussion.

Do you know how much all that work takes? It is not easy and it takes a lot of time. I have spent near 4 years making all of my models. That is a lot of work. This isn't a loaf of bread. but those skyboxes, they take 2-4 hours depending to render. The palms trees that are on most maps in spring and the palmettos? that took a weeked I gave those away. Lathan gave away tons of models. There are others who do. We make shit to give to others. So don't pull the, you guys never give us LAZY SHITS anything.

I didn't start out good at modeling, neither did anyone else. we worked for it, so no it isn't a matter of skill it is a matter of your lazyness. THAT IS ALL. I had to spend years in physical therapy to control my hands enough to WRITE so don't tell me about "I can't do this I don't have the talent" it is bullcrap and just piss poor excuses.

YOu want to preach to me about creativity? How creative would it be if all the mods shared a bunch of models it isn't.

even so you ignore all the FREE CONTENT that kdr gave away. That dude has single handedly give you guys countless vehicles, buildings turrets AND LUA. Yet you still don't use it! You demand everything.

We here is the rub, you didn't work for it so again you are a fucking leach for just wanting people to do all your shit for you. The art of a project is it's face and share the face of your project damages it because other projects will use the models for other things meaning it will hurt unit recognition and confuse players. Whatever, you just want more resources that you will likely ignore. it is fucking greed and it is funny that you do nothing and PREACH to me about sharing. So sorry you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Hoi]

Please leave this guy alone, he makes his stuff and doesnt want everyone to be able to use it (without him knowing), I understand that and maybe I would do the same, you can't use EE without asking too and that works great, and about lua, lua should be availible, but it doesn't have to be, now all stop bitching, becaus that's stupid.

[Pxtl]

Ignorant child.

One week. "No personal attacks" means no personal attacks.

Did he just get banned? YAY! Talking about filching art is not cool.

And let me once again thank Smoth, KDR, et al for all the stuff they've contributed not just to play with but for other artists to use. From the bottom of my heart, you guys are awesomeif a little bit crazy.

And seriously, anybody who wants to make a TA-like mod using free content can go crawling through Xenoclone's old Xect vs. Mynn stuff. You've got a full TA faction there and most of a second, with no IP encumberances but the GPL. And if you don't like the way any of it looks, you're free to go make your own.

[smoth]

And seriously, anybody who wants to make a TA-like mod using free content can go crawling through Xenoclone's old Xect vs. Mynn stuff. You've got a full TA faction there and most of a second, with no IP encumberances but the GPL. And if you don't like the way any of it looks, you're free to go make your own.

xectvsmynn was around here for a while but the port died long ago.

[Pressure Line]

the reason people want to leach is because they expect to be able to make Dawn of War in one night. and here's a hint, it ain't gonna happen.

ffs, if you want to make a game, you gotta start at the start (it sounds blindingly obvious, but its pretty obvious that some people dont get that)



thats a 5 minute tank. anyone who has been using wings for more than an hour could make that. churn out a factionsworth of basic models, and get cracking on the gameplay. once you have that basically sorted (ie you have decided whether or not your idea is feasible) you can start spending time on building decent models. i will repeat: you arent going to build a commercial-quality game in a few days, so deal with it.

and people are going to share because they WANT to, they arent going to share THEIR hard work just because you like the look of it.

im sure i had a point when i started, but im not sure it was a convincing one :/

[Warlord Zsinj]

Wall-E!