Water <3 now all we need is a new map format

[rattle]

The shader can be configured in the SMD by the way

Code: Select all

...
[WATER]
{
		...
		FresnelMin          = 0.7;
		FresnelMax          = 0.8;
		FresnelPower        = 8;
		WaterSpecularFactor = 100; // the lower the brighter
		// WaterTexture
		// WaterFoamTexture
		// WaterNormalTexture
}
...

[TradeMark]

But are we gonna remake every map SMD file because of this new water?

It should work perfectly on every map without tweaking any files, by using the old settings and skyboxes.

[rattle]

No it can't. Anyway, look up MapInfo.cpp for all the tags.

edit: By it can't I meant that there is no setting for light intensity at all, hence night maps need this in their SMD. The shader makes use of all the other tags by the way. To use foam or a different normal map you have to update the SMD anyway.

[smoth]

I have a version of islands at war that I am updating and since it is the only night map we oughta be fine.

[Forboding Angel]

I have a version of islands at war that I am updating and since it is the only night map we oughta be fine.

With water...

Runecrafter made one that I can't remember the name.

In one of cabbages videos nanoblobs is being played on it.

[Machiosabre]

Nightscape.

[SwiftSpear]

But are we gonna remake every map SMD file because of this new water?

It should work perfectly on every map without tweaking any files, by using the old settings and skyboxes.

That's retarded. You can't possibly make forward progress in a project like this if you don't resign youself to the fact that it's not always possible to derive more complex information from simpler variable definitions. Old maps never had a feature like this, so mapper didn't include the necessary information to intelligently create water scapes. You can derive some information from the skyboxes and old settings, but it's completely and totally impossible to always have the best possible water setup based on the settings of the map. The new shader will look passible on all maps, I mean, even on smoths map which is a hard example because it's supposed to be a night map, it looks ok, but not perfect. Perfection is impossible, in order to achieve it it needs a manual once over.

The feature will work in old maps, some better than others. The ones it's really broken in can be updated, but mostly, it's something for future maps to make use of, as opposed to a blank update of old content.

[jK]

But are we gonna remake every map SMD file because of this new water?

It should work perfectly on every map without tweaking any files, by using the old settings and skyboxes.

That's retarded. You can't possibly make forward progress in a project like this if you don't resign youself to the fact that it's not always possible to derive more complex information from simpler variable definitions. Old maps never had a feature like this, so mapper didn't include the necessary information to intelligently create water scapes. You can derive some information from the skyboxes and old settings, but it's completely and totally impossible to always have the best possible water setup based on the settings of the map. The new shader will look passible on all maps, I mean, even on smoths map which is a hard example because it's supposed to be a night map, it looks ok, but not perfect. Perfection is impossible, in order to achieve it it needs a manual once over.

The feature will work in old maps, some better than others. The ones it's really broken in can be updated, but mostly, it's something for future maps to make use of, as opposed to a blank update of old content.

some1 understood my problems

Even Argh's new water normalmap looks great for many maps, but on a lot of maps ... erm .. it sucks. So my aim has it to be to get it nice looking on all maps: old and new ones. But the full beauty will only be visual in the future (I hope water maps will get more popular with this, too).

Note: Again before mappers already play with those settings, some map options will change with my next patch (SpecularFactor renamed to SpecularPower, a _new_ SpecularFactor, AmbientFactor & DiffuseFactor). But first I need to get shorewaves nice looking on all maps and not only ssb

[TradeMark]

But are we gonna remake every map SMD file because of this new water?

It should work perfectly on every map without tweaking any files, by using the old settings and skyboxes.

That's retarded. You can't possibly make forward progress in a project like this if you don't resign youself to the fact that it's not always possible to derive more complex information from simpler variable definitions. Old maps never had a feature like this, so mapper didn't include the necessary information to intelligently create water scapes. You can derive some information from the skyboxes and old settings, but it's completely and totally impossible to always have the best possible water setup based on the settings of the map. The new shader will look passible on all maps, I mean, even on smoths map which is a hard example because it's supposed to be a night map, it looks ok, but not perfect. Perfection is impossible, in order to achieve it it needs a manual once over.

The feature will work in old maps, some better than others. The ones it's really broken in can be updated, but mostly, it's something for future maps to make use of, as opposed to a blank update of old content.

Well, i just want my speedball maps water is totally black, no matter what water renderer you are using... would look retarded if it was blue water or etc.

I still think it is possible to use the old variables and make the new water a bit different with those... just needs some time and testing...

[Peet]

Well, i just want my speedball maps water is totally black, no matter what water renderer you are using... would look retarded if it was blue water or etc.

Your maps consist of two tones of gray...it's pretty silly to imply that it looks anything but the aforementioned adjective

[Argh]

Well, i just want my speedball maps water is totally black, no matter what water renderer you are using... would look retarded if it was blue water or etc.

First off, voidwater works. If you didn't use voidwater, too bad, it's probably going to be shiny now. I dunno, I haven't tested with your map.

Second off, by putting the appropriate textures for water and caustics into your map files, you could address this with a re-release. I think. But I'm not sure, because I haven't tested that, either.

Third, it may very well be possible to write some Lua that would take care of this issue automagically, for maps where the defaults aren't appropriate, since Lua will be able to mess with map stuff in the next version of Spring.

Basically, I dunno how big of a problem this will be for you to fix. Why didn't you just use voidwater in the first place, anyhow?

[TradeMark]

First off, voidwater works. If you didn't use voidwater, too bad, it's probably going to be shiny now. I dunno, I haven't tested with your map.

It doesnt work... i didnt use voidwater because it basically just makes water 100% transparent, and doesnt fade it nicely as it does now. when you zoom close to the voidwater holes, you start seeing big pixelated edges. I used voidwater on the first speedball versions, map named as "Colors V2" or "Colors", and i saw how sucky it looked, so i had to change it...

Secondly, if voidwater is set, i cant walk in water at all. IIRC.

[Argh]

i didnt use voidwater because it basically just makes water transparent

What it does is it just clips the map below the water plane, and shows the background. You could have done the fade in your texture very easily, tbh, like everybody who does realistic water has had to do, so if you didn't, I dunno what to tell ya.

At any rate, if you didn't use voidwater, you're basically hosed, because it'll use the default values for specularity, etc., and there just isn't any good way around those sorts of issues.

[TradeMark]

texture? what about the holes which combombs/nukes/krogplosions creates?

[Argh]

Why is a metal map being deformed that much, anyhow?

<looks at map>

So, basically, you have ocean around the whole thing. Not a steep drop into nothingness. Ocean.

It inflicts a whole 10 damage, which I'm sure sucks, but whatever, there's a liquid there, game-engine-wise. What about the other reflective modes? Surely you can see fighters and bombers flying over this ocean, right?

I guess you're pretending it's outer space, or something else that's nasty. With a hardness of 70, I'm sure that makes for interesting gameplay. But you're basically hosed, it'll get treated like water.

Sorry, this map is truely a bizarre abuse of SMD. Just tell people the ocean's full of hydrochloric acid, and move on with your life. This is not the Mona Lisa we're talking about here.

[TradeMark]

lol just admit i was right about voidwater

[Argh]

No, actually. The map very easily have been made a very high plateau. I guess you'd no longer be able to make holes to the ocean, but meh, they'd still be impassible terrain.

[TradeMark]

i dont want impassable water...

[Neddie]

I've played on a few maps with voidwater and it is perfectly passable. Hell, Zerg even hacked Cosmos to pull out the textures so he could play a water map with 8 MB of graphics memory.

[REVENGE]

I've played on a few maps with voidwater and it is perfectly passable. Hell, Zerg even hacked Cosmos to pull out the textures so he could play a water map with 8 MB of graphics memory.

LAWL

I've played a seabattle on Cosmos before, with all our boats moving around on the space texture. XD