What we really need to balance things out is a perfect helper-AI imho. It could build your resources for you, while you can focus on the more strategic decisions.
So don't stand around designing another mod, go on and create an AI (which is of course ten times as hard).
Economy/Strategy
Moderator: Moderators
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HellToupee
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 01 May 2005, 01:27
thats the fault of the choice u make, pour everything in rushing to fusions and mohos and u deserve to get rushed, also same with the early rusher player if no one attacks you and the others are stuck in battle and you get fusions up its all over for them no matter what they do. XTA lvl one is worse than in ota and defences are stronger, its lvl 2 thats so strong. Personally i hate the weenie fusion moho rushers because at that stage of the game its boring static gameplay. Thats why i hate maps like azure and love large open maps.SinbadEV wrote:my goal in playing OTA is to get past the expantionist part of the game to the Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant> Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant> Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant / 100 adv constructor planes stage as quickly as possible so I can acctually start building the things I want in mass quantity as quickly as I want to use them... in XTA, because levl 1s are so strong and defenses are so sucky, I can't get to that point without people weeny rushing me to death... that's why I like OTA, but keep trying to play XTA, because it's a harder game to play well and the games are nice and quick to get started...
That's what I was saying OTA encourages my static gameplay style, XTA is making me think a lot more and it's harder... so far my new strategy is going to involve level 1 veicles and level 2 kbots from the start, and rushing metal spots fast and then defending them with little pockets of said level 1 vehicles and level 2 kbots... but it still needs work...
um u have it the wrong way round. xta the only ecouragement to raiding is weasels OBSCENE amount of HP a LLT can take 3-4 lvl1 tanks on and outranges lvl1 kbots >.> and the GAT gun /./ let alone the pop-ups and guardians >.< OTA is FAR more fluid than xta. (although i still lurve xta :) good fun [except against mass porcers, on high metal maps, losers who use air only, and noobs]) =)
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HellToupee
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 01 May 2005, 01:27
um how does ota encourage ur static style by having more powerful lvl1 units and less powerful defences.SinbadEV wrote:That's what I was saying OTA encourages my static gameplay style, XTA is making me think a lot more and it's harder... so far my new strategy is going to involve level 1 veicles and level 2 kbots from the start, and rushing metal spots fast and then defending them with little pockets of said level 1 vehicles and level 2 kbots... but it still needs work...
Shut Up... it's obviouse that I'm just plain stupid... why are you even listening to me? It's my experience that despite the extra range, XTA defenses are LESS effective against even level 1 XTA units... but for some reason that doesn't make sense anymore so I will obviousely have to go back to trying to make a solid, compact, well defended, base and just find a better swarming unit than brawlers... maybe I could brawl missile defence and nuke people... that would be cool...
jesus!, so many dumb ota fans here that you can barely think of any other.
Got to test gcii foe?
the economic model there depends on a base amount of resources added to the player account.
This stream of resources grows whenever you "take" an strategyc point in the map.
You get more resources (ap?) by killing enemys too.
Also, ala wc3, you get penalized (resources grow slower) when you have a lot of units (more ap value), in the game.
This is very complete way of managing the resources without having to build structures.
Got to test gcii foe?
the economic model there depends on a base amount of resources added to the player account.
This stream of resources grows whenever you "take" an strategyc point in the map.
You get more resources (ap?) by killing enemys too.
Also, ala wc3, you get penalized (resources grow slower) when you have a lot of units (more ap value), in the game.
This is very complete way of managing the resources without having to build structures.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
I agree that resources are an awsome part of TA ( maybe even the best part ) but they are certainly not the only part. If we were to make a mod, it wouldn't be to replace XTA, it would just be another fun game. The aim is to make it fun and different; its not a "keep the good stuff from XTA and get rid of the bad stuff" type of mod, its a "there are different types of RTS games, and the Spring engine is capable of a wide variety" type game.
Remember, in the mod you would still be able to reclaim wreckages, so you have to put just as much effort into getting metal. Therefore its not a reduction, its just different.
C'mon guys, lets stir up some interest in this! We could at least make a very small mod along these lines with the XTA units/models, and see if it's any good. What if we discover it's f*cking awsome?
Remember, in the mod you would still be able to reclaim wreckages, so you have to put just as much effort into getting metal. Therefore its not a reduction, its just different.
C'mon guys, lets stir up some interest in this! We could at least make a very small mod along these lines with the XTA units/models, and see if it's any good. What if we discover it's f*cking awsome?
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Get used to using mobile defences in the early game rather then stationary defences. I don't know why they decided to make light and heavy lazertowers boarderline useless, but you're much better off with a couple dozen ak's or peewees then 2-3 llts.SinbadEV wrote:my goal in playing OTA is to get past the expantionist part of the game to the Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant> Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant> Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant / 100 adv constructor planes stage as quickly as possible so I can acctually start building the things I want in mass quantity as quickly as I want to use them... in XTA, because levl 1s are so strong and defenses are so sucky, I can't get to that point without people weeny rushing me to death... that's why I like OTA, but keep trying to play XTA, because it's a harder game to play well and the games are nice and quick to get started...
They wouldn't have to be immortal, just give them the following tags:SinbadEV wrote:I was just thinking, you could acctually have checkpoints that you could "capture" and then they would produce stuff for you... they would have to be immortal
MaxDamage=30000; [or higher]
HealTime=10000; [or higher]
But could you make it so that a map will have units already in it? that belong to their own neutral team?
Oh! You gotta make them protect the ground like DT to... Otherwise pepole can destroy the ground around them and it will look weird. (and if it's like 10 peewees down in the ground it's kinda hard to ''capture''.
How are we (you =p) gonna make the capture thing anyway? Give all con units a special ''capture'' command that only works on the ''Checkpoints?''
And how is it gonna look? And is it just gonna be something that a Neutral team owns unill you capture it?
To make the game more intresting, we could have speacil buildings ''insead'' of a ''Checkpoints''. Like plasma repulsors, or a factory that builds some cool unit from an old race that got killed or something.
OH! We just gotta have transportabole defence! Some cheap stuff that can be moved bye T-planes. Nothing to big and fancy, and it should cost atleast dubble the amount of a normal stationary one.
Name?
I think we should take some ''inspiration'' from other mods to, since it's a mod, and those not follow that path of XTA and OTA direcly. We(you) can add and remove units to shape this into a new cool game for spring!
Cool!
How are we (you =p) gonna make the capture thing anyway? Give all con units a special ''capture'' command that only works on the ''Checkpoints?''
And how is it gonna look? And is it just gonna be something that a Neutral team owns unill you capture it?
To make the game more intresting, we could have speacil buildings ''insead'' of a ''Checkpoints''. Like plasma repulsors, or a factory that builds some cool unit from an old race that got killed or something.
OH! We just gotta have transportabole defence! Some cheap stuff that can be moved bye T-planes. Nothing to big and fancy, and it should cost atleast dubble the amount of a normal stationary one.
Name?
I think we should take some ''inspiration'' from other mods to, since it's a mod, and those not follow that path of XTA and OTA direcly. We(you) can add and remove units to shape this into a new cool game for spring!
Cool!
*coughcough groundcontroll coughcough*he economic model there depends on a base amount of resources added to the player account.
This stream of resources grows whenever you "take" an strategyc point in the map.
You get more resources (ap?) by killing enemys too. Cool
Also, ala wc3, you get penalized (resources grow slower) when you have a lot of units (more ap value), in the game.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
Well I was thinking more along the lines of a mod that could be played on a standard TA map.
But if you wanted it specialised for a certain type of map, then we could have contruction units able to ressurect wreckages, which would be preplaced. Of course, this would mean you could ressurect any units, which could make or break the mod. I maintain that we should create a demo to showcase and test the balance of the mod before any effort is actually put into it.
"imo TA's resources system is briliant so why change it?"
I agree, but a change couldn't hurt. That's WD's only real failing, imo; although the combat is completely different to TA, resource management is quite similar. I dunno, I'm probably wrong, but resources are half the game, and when two mods treat resources similarly, it gets a bit monotonous.
But if you wanted it specialised for a certain type of map, then we could have contruction units able to ressurect wreckages, which would be preplaced. Of course, this would mean you could ressurect any units, which could make or break the mod. I maintain that we should create a demo to showcase and test the balance of the mod before any effort is actually put into it.
"imo TA's resources system is briliant so why change it?"
I agree, but a change couldn't hurt. That's WD's only real failing, imo; although the combat is completely different to TA, resource management is quite similar. I dunno, I'm probably wrong, but resources are half the game, and when two mods treat resources similarly, it gets a bit monotonous.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
yeah, that's right. It's a way of forcing combat, which works well in certain games. Other things they use is how heroes need to grow levels, so that also forces combat, and the fact that you get coins when you kill wild enemies helps, too.mongus wrote: Also, ala wc3, you get penalized (resources grow slower) when you have a lot of units (more ap value), in the game.
It all depends on the type of mod you want. If resources in this mod will be fixed, then like wc3 we need an incentive to attack/explore/exploit enemies weaknesses.
Because otherwise we are in danger of creating a "the first person to attack loses" mod.
Also, we don't want it like wc3 where you can't really make a comeback. If you're losing, there needs to be a way to come back. But in a way, this is already implemented, because if you only JUST survive an attack, then all of a sudden you have a lot of metal.
So we can have two forces. There is reason not to attack, because if you do and it sucks you're opponent gets your metal.
On the other hand, if we make the main base structures, i.e. solar collector, kbot lab etc. have very little life, then we give someone with an inferior force the potential to do a lot of damage.
In other words, a strategy that overcomes your opponent's defenses for even a short period of time could be a devastating blow against them.
We can make it even more interesting with FARK like units. You go into a battle against a superior foe, but by reclaiming wreckages, you prevent your opponent from getting them and give some of their metal back to you.
This is the only things in ressource management in TA that I hate:)Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant> Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant> Moho Metal Maker> Fusion Plant / 100 adv constructor planes stage as quickly as possible so I can acctually start building the things
At this time, it's get really boring for me.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Mmm, I'm not going to get into this silly OTAvXTA nonsense, and I'm sorry if I might have instigated it.
Suffice to say, my allegiance lies with OTA. Yes, this may be because I am used to it, and don't particularly feel like learning XTA balance to the level that I have learnt TA balance. I do feel that XTA balance is inferior to OTA, and the gameplay it produces is equally inferior; but I won't get into it here, because I don't want to get drawn into what appears to be a series of irrational arguments on both sides.
Finally, for the people who are throwing around add hominem attacks;
You people only damage your own argument when you throw around such nonsense. It irritates me to be writing on the same board as people who are unable to argue a point above a 12 year old level.
Suffice to say, my allegiance lies with OTA. Yes, this may be because I am used to it, and don't particularly feel like learning XTA balance to the level that I have learnt TA balance. I do feel that XTA balance is inferior to OTA, and the gameplay it produces is equally inferior; but I won't get into it here, because I don't want to get drawn into what appears to be a series of irrational arguments on both sides.
Finally, for the people who are throwing around add hominem attacks;
Originally posted by min3mat
sounds n00b to me defenses in xta are obscene except against lvl2 units (>.>)
(as a quick selection)Originally posted by Mongus
jesus!, so many dumb ota fans here that you can barely think of any other.
You people only damage your own argument when you throw around such nonsense. It irritates me to be writing on the same board as people who are unable to argue a point above a 12 year old level.