Serious balance issue: goliaths

[tanelorn]

Ok, they have massive hit points, they destroy everything, and they are easy to build, and quick to get into the game because commanders can immediately build advanced factories.

I had a very nice base that should have been able to hold off a decent army get ahhnilated by two goliaths all by themselves early in the game. The other guy puts his commander on his advanced factory and just pumps them out. THey take so many hits they just shrug off my defences and are in my base popping moho mines and reactors.

Even with other goliaths and tanks and arty out in the frontlines, goliaths just roll on by and ignore them, taking some damage but not enough to stop them from going on.

THis is silly. It's like a half-krogoth tank that you can make many of fairly easily. I'm fine with them being tough and having a big gun.

But what do they get in XTA?

1. Enough HP to shrug off anything short of an ahnilliator.

2. A big gun with long range. 2-3 hits and my commander popped. At beyond visual sight.

3. Fast enough to bypass most defenses and outrun artillery shells.

4. Low enough build requirements that a factory can churn them out quickly.

Ok. THis is not balance. THis is the definition of imbalance.

OTA had a good balance for the GOliath. THey were the strongest tank and had a strong gun. But they were very slow and the gun was short range. Plus they didn't have nearly the HP of XTA goliaths, so concentrated fire could kill them.

Now I have other beefs against XTA like the invulnerability of dragons teeth, the speed of Cans and SUmos, and a few other things I'm not happy about. But this is darn high on my list and I think goliaths really makes the game unfair.

[NOiZE]

go play a other mod..

[Agiel]

Personally I think Sumos are worse, but yes. They are both overpowered and the game would be much more fun if they were tuned down. It's very unlikely they will do anything about it though. We'll just have to learn how to live with it or play another mod.

[Redfish]

Ooooooh, aren't we so pathetic. Learn to play instead of complain about the fact that you can't play. If someone builds gollies against you, just do the same.

[Durandal]

Or airlift them and self-destruct the carrier in mid-air.

[PauloMorfeo]

...
I had a very nice base that should have been able to hold off a decent army get ahhnilated by two goliaths all by themselves early in the game.
...

First, it was not early game.
Second, even after getting owned, it is very rude to be the server and just leave the game.
Thirdly, 2 Goliaths is (4650 x 2) 9300 metal, enough to make some 7,5 Buldogs. Are you sure you would have handled 7 Buldogs going in your base?

Personally I think Sumos are worse, but yes. ...

Have you ever had to kill Goliaths with Sumos? You wouldn't be saying that, i guess...

[Lindir The Green]

you can't airlift goliaths.

[Kixxe]

Did you build dt or mine pits?

That will stop goliaths in their tracks, and let 2-3 HLT and a MRPC...

The thing is that yes, Goliaths are very, very VERY hard to kill just like that *snaps fingers*

Thats why you got to stop them. And IF you kill them...
hey, free metal and a waste of resurces for you enemy is never bad is it?

Now I have other beefs against XTA like the invulnerability of dragons teeth

wait.. i strangly recall that Goliaths could crush DT? thats what your talking about? hmm... *goes testing*

[Zoombie]

Wait! You can make tank's be able to CRUSH DT's and other static defences! That would be great for super hevy tanks, cuase they would be litteraly able to PLOW over enemy walls! That would be cool. I am also going to do some testing

[FireCrack]

Thats why you got to stop them. And IF you kill them...
hey, free metal and a waste of resurces for you enemy is never bad is it?

or resurect them

[Kixxe]

Oh, i almost forgot...

Commander standing behind a corner+ big heavy (and exspensive^^) tank = teh win!

Oh, did it forget to mention that goliaths climbing abilty S**KS? I mean, any small hill will bring their speed down to... the speed of the post office!
And anything more will stop them, which is the ''counter'' of goliaths.

[ Hey, can you write anything in here?]

Kixxe wrote:

Thats why you got to stop them. And IF you kill them...
hey, free metal and a waste of resurces for you enemy is never bad is it?

or resurect them [/quote]

Or frezze with spiders and capture them.

hmm...

hey zwzsg! Can you make a new cool list like that one about ''how to kill krogoths'', but with goliaths instead?

[FolCan]

Youre forgetting i had 1 bulldog there too not just 2 goliaths...

[Doomweaver]

Mines annihilate them (I never used this tactic, but its worked great against my goliaths plenty of times). Same as Brawlers and Pheonixes. Annihilators, do too, I think, but don't quote me on it. Dragons teeth can slow them down heaps, too!

[FireCrack]

Goliaths have never been a threat to me at all, what xixxie said is true, goliaths are LATHARGIC up hills, even tiny ones i find no problem stopping and destroying them, sumos on the other hand are probably a bit more threatening IMO, on large flat expanses atleast, but also more easily killed. Korgoths are the only things i have a qualm with, but evrey day i try another tactic, spiders may work well against them, but you'l need to kill the support first wich can be a chlange, or use the spacing tools to setup a spaced row of dragons teeth so the small units can go through, if he doesnt notice what your doing you should be able to take out the small guys then ambush the kroggies and posibly goliaths.

[tanelorn]

Well Sumos don't have the hit points of a small mountain, so heavy lasers kill them pretty quick. But goliaths just keep going.

I had plenty of HLTs a couple bulldogs and a goliath myself. But they couldn't kill the enemys goliaths quick enough, it just rolled in past everyone and blew up half the base. The problem is it's HP is so high you can be doing alot of damage to it but it doesn't matter. Once it's in range of your energy and metal facilities its over.

[FoeOfTheBee]

I personally do not mind the goliath. I kill them with many HLT, 10 or so is a number to start with, also air.

The best thing would be to see if core wins more than arm. If it does, there may be balance issues. If it does not, probably there are not. Could the server collect these statistics?

[Zoombie]

But when you arent prepaired for Golith's, they cut through you like a chainsword through an ork! But that's true of pretty much everything...

Also the way i blow up Golithi's dosent have any spiffy trick's to it. I just use gun's.... lots and lots and lots of Gun's! If i have a fusion i will cloke my comm and wait for the Golithi's to get really close and then blast them. Problem is i keep forgetting to set my Comm to Hold Fire, so it fire's its laser before im in the right spot, and then the Golothi's are gone... along with my comm and anything else in the area...

[hrmph]

If you have dooms day machines/penetrators/annihilators or a mass of gunships, goliaths are no problem. If you know your opponent is massing them, build dragonsteeth as well.

[PauloMorfeo]

...
hey zwzsg! Can you make a new cool list like that one about ''how to kill krogoths'', but with goliaths instead?

Hlt: 825 Metal
Goliath: 4650 Metal = 5,6 Hlts
Krogoth: 25950 Metal = 31,4 Hlts

Try to run a Goliath into a wall of 5 Hlts
Try to run a Krogoth into a wall of 31 Hlts

Of course these are not entirely fair comparisons (for example, the Krog fires longer than the Hlts) but it shows just how vulnerable they can be.
31 Hlts!? Now that's something worth watching...

[IMSabbel]

well, consider following:

With springs "units cant shoot through other units" realism, i cant imagine anysituation where more than 8 or 9 hlts could fire at once.

The krogoth can easily wipe out a tower every 2 or 3 seconds and would have no problem annihilating those 30 towers. And i doubt he would lose more than 30 or 40k hp