Firearms.

the-middleman · Post by **the-middleman** » 13 Nov 2007, 17:15

Machiosabre wrote: proving there are bad people in the world is the worst argument for having lots of weapons around I've ever heard.

QFT

manored · Post by **manored** » 13 Nov 2007, 18:57

If we could just make all guns vanish I would agree, but since "bad people" would still have guns I dont :)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 14 Nov 2007, 00:33

I typed up another long one here but I'm too tired to make proper sense.

So anyways, I was reading this article in the Toronto Sun (a fairly major newspaper here) about a kid that got shot in... I think it was Finland. A few days ago, probably last week... Anyway. They have the third highest gun ownership (IIRC) percentage and still a very low murder rate (IIRC). I'll read the article again tomorrow at work to get the exact quote.

tombom wrote:Well at least you explained what you were saying but I guess you couldn't resist quoting me as "million marching moms".

Hell no, I've been waiting to use that one!

I would happily see guns completely eliminated from society but this is an unrealistic goal. My real point is, guns aren't inherently evil, they must be used with evil intent. Saying guns are bad is like saying that nuclear energy is bad. Get past the ignorant propaganda and there's nothing dangerous unless it's in the hands of a crazy person or an idiot. Or, at the very least, it's not as bad as people make out.

malric · Post by **malric** » 14 Nov 2007, 10:14

Of course there are not inherently evil, but saying they should be allowed because 'we are free' or 'bad guys have them', is not really constructive isn't it ?

As someone said before I am happy with a no gun society - and I do not see any reason to allow them (except shooting ranges and etc). Anyhow the only way to allow them would be to have a mature society - and that is hard hard hard to obatin.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 15 Nov 2007, 00:51

The term, a mature society, is leading and undefined.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 11 Dec 2007, 06:22

In light of recent discussion, here is the old guns thread, which has everyone's views/assorted insults toward everyone else.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 11 Dec 2007, 13:42

I still think an armed populace is a good idea, but there needs to be more emphasis on gun etiquette. I've gone shooting before and I've met alot of people with guns who had the proper respect for guns and the way they are handled, even some who didn't own guns. The problem is when people get ahold of illegal guns(which can happen in any country) or people get ahold of others' guns because they weren't properly secured. I'll point you to a very informative referance for the need of an armed populace, Red Dawn. This is a very moving biography of a group of teenagers in the Soviet invasion of the US, which happened a few years ago, and clearly demonstrates the need for publicly available guns. Although the US pushed the Soviets back and ultimately caused thier downfall which created a democratic Russia, these teenagers must not be forgotten, thier's and others' guerilla tactics against the Soviet occupiers helped in the war towards the final victory.

"WOLVERINES!" indeed.....

quoting for insanity

Catalyst726 · Post by **Catalyst726** » 11 Dec 2007, 13:49

Ok first of all pressure, yea I know it was fake lol(Red Dawn still pwnz). Foreboding angel is right about banning guns, that would make the problem worse(which I was trying to point out in my Red Dawn comparison, Soviet invasion/Disgruntled teenagers are basically the same thing

) because then only the cops/swat would be able to stop these people which doesnt always happen the way people want it, bank robbery in L.A. for example. I too learned proper gun etiquette, about 4 years ago which means I was 13, and before I could even hold a loaded gun I had to be able to handle an unloaded one first. There are also some programs that reinforce this concept when you get older, Ducks Unlimited for instance, but it still comes down to stopping the illegal guns from entering our country, which is probably as hard as stopping the drug cartels. The biggest reason I can think of for having such a big illegal gun market is gang warfare, and people have been trying to stop that for decades.

P.S. The AK-47 isnt outright illegal, there are some in the country still from before the ban on full automatic guns and from when veterans brought them back from Vietnam, and these are all registered. Also there is a civilian version of the AK-47 produced by I forget who, but its only single shot and its not really called AK-47 but it looks like one and everyone refers to AK look alikes as AK-47s, anyways that single shot AK look alike is legal because it isnt fully automatic but other than that fact its pretty much a clone.

ianmac · Post by **ianmac** » 11 Dec 2007, 20:50

Catalyst726 wrote:P.S. The AK-47 isn't outright illegal, there are some in the country still from before the ban on full automatic guns and from when veterans brought them back from Vietnam, and these are all registered.

Full auto guns are not illegal nation wide, it's up to the individual states to decide that. Oregon for instance you can own (and shoot

) full auto gun, you just have to have permits out the wazoo.

Catalyst726 · Post by **Catalyst726** » 12 Dec 2007, 01:14

Ok, full auto guns themselves aren't illegal, but producing them for civilians, and importing them for sale to civilians, is illegal. There are some leftover from before the ban and there are ways of getting them, I can't remember exactly what the specifics are, but for the most part the flow of legal full auto guns for civilian use is nearly zero.

erasmus · Post by **erasmus** » 12 Dec 2007, 03:13

btw,
cops suck at guns...

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Firearms.