Firearms.

[XIII]Roxas · Post by **[XIII]Roxas** » 08 Nov 2007, 06:32

Guns are not bad. Guns are good.

Get over it. Just because someone has a gun, doesn't mean they are a:

1) Criminal
2) FBI-Agent sent to Neuralize you.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 08 Nov 2007, 06:57

[XIII]Roxas wrote:Get over it. Just because someone has a gun, doesn't mean they are a:

1) Criminal
2) FBI-Agent sent to Neuralize you.

In countries with guns "banned" I'd tend to think this.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Nov 2007, 11:10

WTF do people shoot up schools? It makes no sense. If you hate humanity go shoot up the fat people at the shopping mall. If you hate the government go shoot up an embassy. If you hate authority go shoot up a cop shop. If you hate corporate corruption go shoot up a business headquarters. FFS. People are so stupid that even when they sacrifice themselfs in an act of hatred against sociaty they are emo tards and do it somewhere familiar attacking mostly innocent people who have nothing to do with their protests.

Doesn't it piss these people off that they are hypocritical assholes?

Problem: Humanity sucks
Solution: Make it suck more?

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 08 Nov 2007, 11:18

[XIII]Roxas wrote:Guns are not bad. Guns are good.

Get over it. Just because someone has a gun, doesn't mean they are a:

1) Criminal
2) FBI-Agent sent to Neuralize you.

How is "Guns are not bad. Guns are good." even attempting an argument?

Saying "Get over it" about people who don't like easy gun access is dumb and not helpful.

malric · Post by **malric** » 08 Nov 2007, 18:27

Sleksa wrote:
Felix the Cat wrote:
tombom wrote:
That's obviously simplifying it a lot and you're probably going to throw some statistics at me which show it's completely wrong but I don't see why having some people have guns who aren't criminals somehow makes things better.
Well, see, I'm not a Eurosocialist, so I don't try to socially engineer people and treat people as statistics.

Also its not only this situation. Think how much easier st

I do know that I strongly believe that every person has the right to defend his or her self with a firearm. That's all I really need. I'm not going to launch a statistics blitz at you, because I don't determine what is right and wrong by way of statistics.

I'd much rather live in a society where everyone has equal access to guns than in a society where only the government and criminals (oh, but I just repeated myself) have access to guns.

can you find the statistics of deaths by firearms in usa compared to finland? oh right you dont believe in statistics.

(deleted some of the quotes not to be to long)

Even if you do not like statistics it is not bad to have some to discuss on. So here there are some statistics:

- the number of murders http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... apita#rest
- ratio of gun murders and percent of murders done with firearms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence (I know wikipedia is not a good source, but this one is referenced)

What I would like to point is : for some reason the criminalitty and gun violence seem to be lower in some parts of Europe.

I think this is also because of the reaction people will have to violence (ok, not the imediate reaction, but the reaction in principle). If your first tought is 'get a gun an defend yourself' you will obtain the data from US. Maybe (I do not know if this is the case but it could be plausible) if you are interested in what to do to prevent crime then the statistics will look better.

I would say it is much better to think at the good of a community as a whole, and not react always just based on simple principle like : "I want to be able to shoot someone if I think I am in danger". Yes, sure, this is not a bad stance, but maybe, just maybe, it would be better to try to think (at least a bit) like: "why does someone would want to attack me ?". The problems are hard and there is no 'silver bullet' (pun intended

).

(edit: and in case it wasn't obvious i agree with Sleksa)

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Nov 2007, 22:08

Just to play devils advocate here...

If you evaluate the statistics you will probably find that the percentage of gun violence is loosely correlated to the percentage of the population that is black people as well.

Simply put, assuming causality from statistics is VERY risky business.

manored · Post by **manored** » 08 Nov 2007, 22:13

Im too lazy to search better arguments, but I think that anyone who wanted to have a gun should be allowed to do so, since guns are merely tools that wont work winhout will, and with will you wouldnt really need a gun.

More research in non-letal weapons would help too :)

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 08 Nov 2007, 22:16

SwiftSpear wrote:Just to play devils advocate here...

If you evaluate the statistics you will probably find that the percentage of gun violence is loosely correlated to the percentage of the population that is black people as well.

Simply put, assuming causality from statistics is VERY risky business.

...

You can't use "probably" in an argument about statistics.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Nov 2007, 22:29

Remove it then.
America: black population - medium | gun violence - medium
Europe: black population - low (in most areas) | gun violence - low
Africa: black population - high | gun violence - high

The reality is that statistics show trends, not causes.

malric · Post by **malric** » 09 Nov 2007, 12:17

That is not exactly wrong or racist. Until 150 years ago all the black population was in slavery. I am no history expert, but maybe in 150 years they hadn't had enough time to recover completly.

And in Africa was more or less the same (with many colonialist powers, etc).

Your observation alone is also something to think about.... (a bit more complex than the simple 'I want I gun I should have a gun').

Then again I'm sure there are statistics on exactly who uses the guns, but today I do not have time to search them.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 09 Nov 2007, 12:28

manored wrote:Im too lazy to search better arguments, but I think that anyone who wanted to have a gun should be allowed to do so, since guns are merely tools that wont work winhout will, and with will you wouldnt really need a gun.

More research in non-letal weapons would help too :)

i want hand grenades and 2 rifles to go into a killing spree.

so i should be allowed to do so since they are merely tools that wont work without a will.

malric · Post by **malric** » 09 Nov 2007, 12:33

Hmm I would also suggest a Boeing 767-200. (just in case you are upset your neighbour has a taller skyscraper than you)

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 09 Nov 2007, 12:36

Hey I'm Felix the Cat! You don't agree with my views? EUROSOCIALIST! I won't even bother arguing with you because I'm just that far above you.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 09 Nov 2007, 12:52

Well, see, I'm not a Eurosocialist, so I don't try to socially engineer people and treat people as statistics.

I do know that I strongly believe that every person has the right to defend his or her self with a firearm. That's all I really need. I'm not going to launch a statistics blitz at you, because I don't determine what is right and wrong by way of statistics.

I'd much rather live in a society where everyone has equal access to guns than in a society where only the government and criminals (oh, but I just repeated myself) have access to guns.

Well, see, I'm not a Eurosocialist, so I don't try to socially engineer people and treat people as statistics.

I do know that I strongly believe that every person has the right to attack and beat up gays on the street. That's all I really need. I'm not going to launch a statistics blitz at you, because I don't determine what is right and wrong by way of statistics.

CarRepairer · Post by **CarRepairer** » 09 Nov 2007, 16:59

neither bad nor good

manored · Post by **manored** » 10 Nov 2007, 17:48

Sleksa wrote:
manored wrote:Im too lazy to search better arguments, but I think that anyone who wanted to have a gun should be allowed to do so, since guns are merely tools that wont work winhout will, and with will you wouldnt really need a gun.

More research in non-letal weapons would help too :)
i want hand grenades and 2 rifles to go into a killing spree.

so i should be allowed to do so since they are merely tools that wont work without a will.

If you werent allowed to have then, you would buy then in black market, or maybe even buy stuff you legaly can and turn then into weapons.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 10 Nov 2007, 17:49

Having it at home incresaes the risk of a killing spree at a whim imo

malric · Post by **malric** » 10 Nov 2007, 18:00

manored wrote: If you werent allowed to have then, you would buy then in black market, or maybe even buy stuff you legaly can and turn then into weapons.

You would buy them in the black market because the system is not working. (like the police who should stop this). And by allowing guns you are not fixing at all the system, to the contrary, you could say: everyone should have arms and defend by themselves - let's fire all the policeman, why do we need them ?

It's like with the nukes. Everyone wants one because the other has one. If no one would have it would be much better. I admit this is much harder to obtain that, than allowing guns for everybody......

Damn, in spring it's easiear

- you have a nuke - you fire a nuke.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 10 Nov 2007, 18:43

malric wrote:
manored wrote:let's fire all the policeman, why do we need them ?

who will guard the guards

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 10 Nov 2007, 18:59

manored wrote:
Sleksa wrote:
manored wrote:Im too lazy to search better arguments, but I think that anyone who wanted to have a gun should be allowed to do so, since guns are merely tools that wont work winhout will, and with will you wouldnt really need a gun.

More research in non-letal weapons would help too :)
i want hand grenades and 2 rifles to go into a killing spree.

so i should be allowed to do so since they are merely tools that wont work without a will.
If you werent allowed to have then, you would buy then in black market, or maybe even buy stuff you legaly can and turn then into weapons.

OH RIGHT, ill just go ask ~BLACK MARKET~ for some grenades and assault rifles because there is everything in ~BLACK MARKET~

i might aswell grab a bmp 2 from the ~BLACK MARKET~ while im at it

Spring RTS Engine

Firearms.