The Spring Delusion

[TradeMark]

Just make a map with mod inside, like i did for kernel panic (and speedballs), and trick people to play it as "balanced annihilation 5.8"

People avoids new mods for reasons:
1) server message: "cannot join, you dont have this mod!"
2) too lazy to find and download the mod.
3) too lazy to wait 10 minutes to download the mod.
4) too lazy to learn new mod (zomg i might lose!)
5) too lazy.

[rcdraco]

The lobby should be able to update when you go online with it, so that bugs can be fixed when needed, AKA the searchbar, and the mod/map autolinks.

[Sleksa]

ahah i love this thread and that article <3

[Fanger]

I still want to know how EE is too epic.. and what too epic even means..

also if BA is dieing.. that is by far the slowest death I have ever witnessed.. in fact at times it seems more like not death..

[Pressure Line]

I think that in fact spring should stop copying TA to avoid being charged... But we could stick to its gameplay style, I mean, we could make the other game very similar to TA but not enough to get us charged :)

but no-one would play it, because its not BA. that being the thrust of AF's blog.

[Guessmyname]

I still want to know how EE is too epic.. and what too epic even means..

also if BA is dieing.. that is by far the slowest death I have ever witnessed.. in fact at times it seems more like not death..

Maybe it's too awesome for the feeble minds of ordinary gamers to understand?

[Snipawolf]

I still want to know how EE is too epic.. and what too epic even means..

also if BA is dieing.. that is by far the slowest death I have ever witnessed.. in fact at times it seems more like not death..

Maybe it's too awesome for the feeble minds of ordinary gamers to understand?

+1

[Pressure Line]

I still want to know how EE is too epic.. and what too epic even means..

also if BA is dieing.. that is by far the slowest death I have ever witnessed.. in fact at times it seems more like not death..

Maybe it's too awesome for the feeble minds of ordinary gamers to understand?

+1

for evidence, see all the 'wahh all the units dont look vastly different, and i cant tell them apart, even though it isnt strictly neccesary!' whines

[AF]

The primary mod pwns all the rest simply because its the primary mod. It has little to do with the primary mods content once its established, its a self serving self supporting system.

[Forboding Angel]

I would have to admit I agree with AF's blog there.


Even as an *cough* author of a TAish mod, I would like to see OTA content stop being included with spring. It's deadweight, and if people really want it, it's not hard to set up a dependency.

Also, like AF said, many freeware/OSS stuff won't touch spring with a 50 foot pole because of the "Stolen Content".

[knorke]

I still want to know how EE is too epic.. and what too epic even means..

sorry for the late reply, i only have internet on weekends.

also this post was probally meant ironic:

for evidence, see all the 'wahh all the units dont look vastly different, and i cant tell them apart, even though it isnt strictly neccesary!' whines

it kind of tells the truth i think.
In other "sucessfull" games, units are usually very different, apart from gameplay that also gives them some personality. Now, in EE the units mostly have the same chasis, the only difference are the turrets. While realistic, it DOES make them harder to tell apart.
The answer to "wahh all the units dont look vastly different" is usally "you do not NEED to tell them apart, you have to mix them and use combined forces in large armies!"
There even was epic EE or something, which was in my view a step in the wrong direction.

EE is fun the first half of the game, later it gets less fun imo.

[knorke]

about teamgames:
I think they would be much more fun if they were not always played with the same "left vs right" starting boxes. Sadly, most "noobmaps" (speedmetal, dsd, altored divide) are set up for gameplay like that.
Always attacking and defending in the same direction gets boring afer a while.

[manored]

I find it good to have well defined frontlines, I dont like those maps that are won/lost on microing...

[knorke]

Its a matter of taste i guess.
I like games/maps where you have to think how to build your base, instead of def at the front and eco at the back.
No idea what that has to do with micro though..?

[Mooseral]

We need more tutorials, with step by step instructions on how to make a mod mostly or entirely from scratch. At that point, new modders will no longer be forced to "pimp out the TA car" and will be able to follow their own ideas and ideals for a mod.

Once we have a flood of unique mods, rather than generic inferior TA mods, mod diversity should improve somewhat.

If mod diversity is a huge issue, it would almost make sense to start another main server, so that small mods don't get crowded out by giants like BA. A secondary server dedicated to non-TA mods almost sounds like a good idea... As long as people are unlazy enough to play on it.

[Snipawolf]

Sorry, that sounds awfully like segregation. I mean, seriously.

It would be a bad idea.

[Felix the Cat]

Sorry, that sounds awfully like segregation. I mean, seriously.

It would be a bad idea.

Stop disagreeing with AF's religion!

[Pressure Line]

We need more tutorials, with step by step instructions on how to make a mod mostly or entirely from scratch. At that point, new modders will no longer be forced to "pimp out the TA car" and will be able to follow their own ideas and ideals for a mod.

you arent forced to, by any means. its been gone over before (unfortunately by smoth, who came over as a bit of an ass in the way he did it, but thats beside the point) making a basic mod is not actually that hard, if you have the grasp of basic things like reading, typing, and how to tell two colours apart.

unfortunately most people who want to 'make a mod' really dont want to learn how to make a mod from the ground up with their own blood sweat and tears, especially if the mod they make doesnt look as good as a *A mod modelwise. they want a professional looking modelset delivered to their doorstep, that they can fiddle a few stats around, add stuff here, remove stuff there, and call a brand new idea.

and for the record, there are 2 mods that i know of that people are allowed to do with as they see fit. the first being Nanoblobs, the second being Under Pressure. so for gods sake, drop the "people only make *A clones because making new units is so hard, and its not documented properly" sob story. cos its BS. there are loads of tutorials on the wiki, and while yes, some stuff is undocumented, most experienced/semi-experienced modders dont really mind someone asking intelligent, well formed questions about specific issues. Asking "what program i need to make mod?" is a quick and easy way to get people laughing at you.

A lot of 'new modders' seem to forget that everyone starts as a newb, you dont just magically spring into being with modeling, texturing, scripting and balancing skill. It takes TIME and EFFORT, and it takes a shitload of it to get to the stage where someone like Argh, smoth or Fanger is. These guys work, and work hard to produce what they do, so thinking that you can just flip your computer on one day and start churning out mod content is stupid, naive, and quite frankly... annoying.

But, i dont actually expect anyone to read that, so here is the tl;dr version...

"Modding is not actually that hard, if you can read and follow instructions you should not have a problem."

[Saktoth]

I agree with snipa, different servers would be utterly terrible for new mods. The number one reason i see people playing new mods is when they see a mod they dont know and PM the host for 'Mod link?'

Having your little mod name in the sea of BA games is free advertising. Sure, its hard to build up regular games and a community of players, but its made much easier by having a ready-made player base to recruit from.

BA, XTA and the overall TA base is a boon to most modders. There would be no community at all (Hell not even the modders themselves) unless we had this already in place, something to work on to begin with, something around on which to build a community.

Most mod arent finished. And yet we have a ready-made bed of playtesters to help polish them off, give feedback, and germinate a community. We should be greatful that the TA content is there to keep this community alive, and keep new players coming into it.

People are only going to play BA over your mod if they're already in the community. The only reason they are in the community in the first place to be 'not playing your mod' is because of BA. Think of the millions of other people out there who are also not playing your mod. Try recruiting outside of the spring community for new players rather than spamming the lobby. If your mod cant be successful under its own weight, then why should it be successful at nicking players from BA? You could just as well blame Starcraft or Dawn of War for stealing your players as you could BA.

So maybe the problem with your mod is there just arent enough games open. If BA didnt exist, you'd still have that problem. The only difference is, people wouldnt be starting the spring client at all because they know there would be no games.

Should we replace the OTA content? Yes. But we shouldnt rail against it as a restriction.

[Pressure Line]

the only sad thing is the people who refuse to try anything new. basically it comes down to a bastard of a catch22. people are only here because of the popularity of BA, but because of the popularity of BA nothing else gets played.

the same goes for maps, people play on DSD a lot because DSD is played a lot. self supporting cycle.