http://www.darkstars.co.uk/2007/the-spr ... on-part-1/
Discuss! Your Gods demand it!
The Spring Delusion
Moderator: Moderators
changing existing stuff is easier than creating something completly new.
I think, Spring could need a simple everybody-can-play-this-command&conquer like mod.
At the moment, there are the TA-mods (XTA the completest imo) while all other mods are either too "epic" (EE, 1944) or "special" (Gundam,KP)
For example, the CA-guys seem to have lots of talents, why dont you create something new instead of pimping the old rusty TA car?
Behind the shiny rims and stuff its still ta..
I think, Spring could need a simple everybody-can-play-this-command&conquer like mod.
At the moment, there are the TA-mods (XTA the completest imo) while all other mods are either too "epic" (EE, 1944) or "special" (Gundam,KP)
For example, the CA-guys seem to have lots of talents, why dont you create something new instead of pimping the old rusty TA car?
Behind the shiny rims and stuff its still ta..
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
The top spring mod has alot more to do with community politics and sociological trend than it does religious delusion. I think the biggest flaw in the blog post however is misevalutating the intent of mod authors. Of COURSE mod creators want their content to be played, but ultimately they make content because they want to have a game that plays the way they want/they think the game should play, not explicitly because they want people to play their game.
Why should I make a TA split? Simply put because I don't like the way the current mods appoach the game for whatever reason... be it that they require too much micro, that their unit counters are too strong/defined, that they are poorly balanced, or that they do/don't have units that I like/dislike. Many mod authors make games because they game they want to play doesn't exist, not because they want to develop portfolio pieces or want to be better at developing mods. For most the latter is a side effect of the former, not the other way around.
It's a cute analysis of the current political biosphere, but it's guesses at the causes of the situation could not be more inaccurate.
Why should I make a TA split? Simply put because I don't like the way the current mods appoach the game for whatever reason... be it that they require too much micro, that their unit counters are too strong/defined, that they are poorly balanced, or that they do/don't have units that I like/dislike. Many mod authors make games because they game they want to play doesn't exist, not because they want to develop portfolio pieces or want to be better at developing mods. For most the latter is a side effect of the former, not the other way around.
It's a cute analysis of the current political biosphere, but it's guesses at the causes of the situation could not be more inaccurate.
#CA - todayI think the biggest flaw in the blog post however is misevalutating the intent of mod authors.
No, I think it got it spot on[08:12:39] <OthersideGG> BA must die
[08:12:40] <[CAT]Hellcom> its not
[08:12:40] <OthersideGG>
[08:12:41] <tombom> this is important!!
[08:12:46] <[LCC]Licho> BA is mostly flash spam
[08:12:50] <[CAT]Hellcom> yeah
[08:12:53] <[LCC]Licho> how can this be "balanceD"?
....
[09:08:29] <[LCC]Licho> something in the tone BA is dead . .. dont follow false god .. join CA
[09:09:04] <Regret> BURN THE HERETIC
[09:09:19] <[LCC]Licho> well even if it doesnt work in present state we can still succede with major release
[09:09:21] <[]AF> FLAME THE HEATHEN!
[09:09:23]] <[LCC]Licho> and we can even rename the mod :)
[09:09:49] <[LCC]Licho> <- lost sound reboot
[09:09:51] <[CAT]Hellcom> just steal Noize;s marketing material
[09:09:56] <[LCC]Licho left channel: Quit
[09:09:58] <[CAT]Hellcom> its nearing christmas
[09:09:58] <[]AF> actually renaming might mess it all up
[09:10:16] <[]AF> hmm a father krogmass
[09:11:12] <Regret> they would have to come up with a new ba bashing phrase, not just the old 'BA IS JUST FLASH/GATOR SPAEM'
Similar discourse can be found in logs of #xta, or basics rampant advertising of fifth millenium in #main, or even private messages from Tired.
In the mean time, all our socio-political stances and the current state of development point towards CA being the dominant mod, yet BA is the dominant mod despite all the indications.
In the mean time, all our socio-political stances and the current state of development point towards CA being the dominant mod, yet BA is the dominant mod despite all the indications.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
CA is different than a conventional mod... The large dev team model has allowed politicians to gain ground in a platform where generally only creators flourish. CA really isn't the mod anyone wants to be creating, or playing, it's more the mod that a bunch of random people think TA aught to be for whatever reason, and primarily that reflects as a graphical factor.
err i used to like BA but atm
a well needed balance update is long over due which it hasnt recieved
i was a tad bit skeptical of CA at the start i didnt even download it cos i was put off by the regular downloads of 25 or so megs everytime they wanted to tinker with sumthing wen the auto updater came i decided to give it a proper go and well..
i know BA is a balance mod and the creators balance it how they feel right (and its obvious theres core favourtisim) and its the most popular mod for several reasons i think mainly cos its the most stable and consistant as 5.8 has been out for ages so people are used to it and know wats good and wats not.
I think CA is a good TA remake it adds new game dynamics as well as looking more visually appealing without any noticeable effect on CPU usage and frame rates
with the auto updater its easy to keep up with the times :p and the mod always accepts input and stuff the creators listen.
i wudnt say CA is better than BA (i do prefer it) its to soon to say that but it seems to be better taken care of and have a good future
the communtiy is close minded and will always play sumthing they know works and they feel safe playing cos they know they can do well.
Old players will stick to BA cos they know it like the back of there hand and hence can "own"
New players will come into the lobby and see BA dominating the game list and think why try sumthing else theres 10 ba games running 2 ca games running
and yes i said BA must die ? maybe it was harsh to say but atm BA is old doesnt show wat the engine can do (altho i know its a balance mod and the creators r not intending it to be anything else) BA has made people close minded the spring engine is a wonderful thing. New players will think oh this game looks mediocre wen they can see sumthing that looks better and plays the same ?
Well people can do as they choose TA remakes r good atm cos most people come to spring cos they want to play TA mainly not rilly cos its an open source rts engine with tons of modding possibilities (hope this changes wen full Mods come out)
BA is good
CA is good
People who wont give other mods a chance and halting progress by sticking to a antiquated in terms of the engine mod (BA 5.8 atm) is bad imo
i know we shudnt try to attract people by showing OMGZ look at the shiny graffix which CA does partly we shud show people other game dynamics and lua is good (which CA also does)
so i dont agree TA remakes r bad and people making Non TA mods shud keep hacking at it i would love to see the day a non TA mod has a substantial number of games being played in the lobby
my two cents
a well needed balance update is long over due which it hasnt recieved
i was a tad bit skeptical of CA at the start i didnt even download it cos i was put off by the regular downloads of 25 or so megs everytime they wanted to tinker with sumthing wen the auto updater came i decided to give it a proper go and well..
i know BA is a balance mod and the creators balance it how they feel right (and its obvious theres core favourtisim) and its the most popular mod for several reasons i think mainly cos its the most stable and consistant as 5.8 has been out for ages so people are used to it and know wats good and wats not.
I think CA is a good TA remake it adds new game dynamics as well as looking more visually appealing without any noticeable effect on CPU usage and frame rates
with the auto updater its easy to keep up with the times :p and the mod always accepts input and stuff the creators listen.
i wudnt say CA is better than BA (i do prefer it) its to soon to say that but it seems to be better taken care of and have a good future
the communtiy is close minded and will always play sumthing they know works and they feel safe playing cos they know they can do well.
Old players will stick to BA cos they know it like the back of there hand and hence can "own"
New players will come into the lobby and see BA dominating the game list and think why try sumthing else theres 10 ba games running 2 ca games running
and yes i said BA must die ? maybe it was harsh to say but atm BA is old doesnt show wat the engine can do (altho i know its a balance mod and the creators r not intending it to be anything else) BA has made people close minded the spring engine is a wonderful thing. New players will think oh this game looks mediocre wen they can see sumthing that looks better and plays the same ?
Well people can do as they choose TA remakes r good atm cos most people come to spring cos they want to play TA mainly not rilly cos its an open source rts engine with tons of modding possibilities (hope this changes wen full Mods come out)
BA is good
CA is good
People who wont give other mods a chance and halting progress by sticking to a antiquated in terms of the engine mod (BA 5.8 atm) is bad imo
i know we shudnt try to attract people by showing OMGZ look at the shiny graffix which CA does partly we shud show people other game dynamics and lua is good (which CA also does)
so i dont agree TA remakes r bad and people making Non TA mods shud keep hacking at it i would love to see the day a non TA mod has a substantial number of games being played in the lobby
my two cents
SwiftSpear wrote:CA is different than a conventional mod... The large dev team model has allowed politicians to gain ground in a platform where generally only creators flourish.
CA devs are not creators but politicians?
CA really isn't the mod anyone wants to be creating, or playing, it's more the mod that a bunch of random people think TA aught to be for whatever reason
CA Devs are players above all else. The average in-game time of the top five committers is above 500 hours. Our objective is to make an enjoyable mod that we will play.
We do not claim that TA should be like CA is, nor do we hesitate to follow fun wherever it leads us, even if it's away from the TA formula.
Graphics are a small part of the work that has been put into this mod. If you look at screenshots taken in May, you will see that today's CA looks basically the same. Since then, nearly all our work has been in new and original features.and primarily that reflects as a graphical factor.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
+1smoth wrote:I still think CA will be the best TA based mod because they have closed the door on the past and look to move only forward. In time CA will be amazing, the past release was fairly IMBA but I look forward to trying the newest release :).
The current progress from SVN seems to suggest that we have real great potential that is also being led in the right direction by a team of developers who know what they're doing.
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
s44 will be a big player, the WWII gaming market is a big one, much bigger than spring. if some decent screenies are made and put in the right places on the internets it'll take right off
BA is the minimalist standard mod but any skill it in is meaningful since everyone else also plays it. CA might be what, better than it in every way, but whos going to play it if 'no-one else important plays it'
BA is the minimalist standard mod but any skill it in is meaningful since everyone else also plays it. CA might be what, better than it in every way, but whos going to play it if 'no-one else important plays it'
I believe that it started with only a few people, so as long as there be someone whilling to keep it up it wont die! Have hope! :)hunterw wrote:-its dying slowly
I think that in fact spring should stop copying TA to avoid being charged... But we could stick to its gameplay style, I mean, we could make the other game very similar to TA but not enough to get us charged :)