A plea to Map makers - from a Single Player

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

NO I will not 'name and shame'. That is not what this is about. I just want to raise the issue so that some Map Makers think about it before releasing their work. If a Map Maker sees this they will know which category they fall into, or at least should do.

Hi newguy who presumes too much. Let me explain something very simple, I help a lot of people, mappers, content developers etc. Now, I am also one of the veterans of this board? The relevance? I know most of the mappers and many of them have made 10 or more maps, they may or may not remember what maps they dinked up the start points on. Now, before you jump on someone consider their intentions.

I do not expect you to know who or what I am around here, you are new, and I have to ALWAYS put it all on the table for you new guys. However, this is not the C.S. community, outside of a few personal issues the people on this forum want to see spring succeed and do well. So when spotting issues on a map, there is nothing wrong with pointing it out. Most of us work as a community and frankly we, myself included, want to see all spring content at it's best, that includes the work of others. So consider that next time you make assumptions about a myself or others.


Further more, many mappers are so busy that they do not have time to check their work for issues as they are working forward and not back. So, it may HELP to point these things out. Some maps have issues and are unplayable all together, I am an UF admin. If such a map exists I can fix the file or even lock it if the file is all together bad!

So again, we are here to help, not to hurt. Remember that.

Did you actually read and think about ALL my first post? Did you miss the PS? Sounds like it to me.

OK, so let's take this one point at a time.

"New Guy" Sheesh what a presumption. Just because my post count is low does not mean I can not read. Rule 1 of being a forum member - READ LOTS before even thinking about posting. As for when I registered - previous applies - read, register post in that order. So you registered and posted before me - big deal, it is quality not age/posts that counts.

"I help a lot of people, mappers, content developers etc." SO why the crap start points if you are so helpfull?

"I am also one of the veterans of this board" = egotist. 'Nuf said.

"Now, before you jump on someone consider their intentions." I said I would not 'name and shame' so how am I "jumping on someone"?

"I do not expect you to know who or what I am around here" "I have to ALWAYS put it all on the table for you new guys" back to the ego trip again?

"this is not the C.S. community" WOW I would never have guessed. Somehow the fact that I am posting about Spring on the Spring forum never occurred to me.

"outside of a few personal issues the people on this forum want to see spring succeed and do well" Again - read the PS on my first post.

"So when spotting issues on a map, there is nothing wrong with pointing it out. Most of us work as a community and frankly we, myself included, want to see all spring content at it's best" So I spotted an issue and pointed it out and as my PS said, it was with the intention of making a positive contribution.

"So consider that next time you make assumptions about a myself or others" WTF? You suggested naming the offenders and I declined. What assumption?

"Further more, many mappers are so busy that they do not have time to check their work for issues as they are working forward and not back." That is my whole point. Why bother releasing a map that is not playable? As for "working forward and not back" how do you work forwards if the initial product is crap? Does the concept of quality over quantity mean nothing to you? Why bother releasing garbage that wastes peoples time? Further more, releasing a bunch of junk maps is hardly going to get you respected. I am merely raising a small issue in the hopes of benefiting those people that think that quantity/speed is the goal instaed of quality.

"So, it may HELP to point these things out" So what is this thread about then? I saw a small issue and pointed it out. For that I get your abuse.

"I am an UF admin. If such a map exists I can fix the file or even lock it if the file is all together bad!" Not quite doing your job then are you.

"So again, we are here to help, not to hurt. Remember that." Again WTF?

I would suggest that you walk away from the keyboard. Go outside and get some fresh air. Clear the fuzzy thinking. When you come back, read the thread again from the beginning and THINK about what is being said before missing the point again. Remember the golden rules of forum posting.

1 - Read and fully understand the issue before posting.

2 - STOP, THINK, Then if you are sure, post.

3 - It is quality of posts not quantity that counts.

Paul.

P.S. I am not interested in a flamewar. If you come back with more of this garbage, it will be ignored as this thread has a purpose.

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

smoth: +1. spring deserves to be good, therefore its maps deserve to be picked on. for the greater good.

While I agree I think the term "Picked on" is a little harsh. How bout just making a little helpful suggestion or even pointing the maker in the direction of a 'how to set the start points'? After all, some of the maps that have issues are rather good looking and once the start points are sorted out they are fun to play.

This thread is about helping, not abusing.

[smoth]

zomygosh, paul, it is all clear to me now you are soo right. Look man, you are not the first and not the last to have your attitude, it's cool, in time I think you will change your opinion of me.

The point still remains, list the maps in question.

dude, also in the future please use the quote tag, it helps make reading your posts much easier.

[Goolash_]

You can always use cheat and choose a start pos for the AI and then switch back to your team.

(btw: sorry if said something that was already said but this thread is long as hell and i gave on reading it all about half way through).

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

zomygosh, paul, it is all clear to me now you are soo right. Look man, you are not the first and not the last to have your attitude, it's cool, in time I think you will change your opinion of me.

The point still remains, list the maps in question.

dude, also in the future please use the quote tag, it helps make reading your posts much easier.

MAN - that took guts! Kudos to you.

Mind you, I still don't see the "attitude" thing but what the heck

As for the listing bit, I think I would rather take AF's approach and PM them first with a little helpful advice rather then open them to public ridicule. After all, we all have to start somewhere. Not understanding the issue does not detract from the ability to create good maps. Until a decent GUI tool is available I will not even contemplate all the geekism needed to make a map.

Mega thanks, Paul.

[smoth]

oh, they have a tool to do map start points. Perhaps I am not coming across right. It isn't considered ridicule to list the maps that have start points you feel need to be looked at. If someone is offended then blame it on me citing the fact that I suggested you do it. However, some people forboding angel is one of them, have several maps with bad start points, he knows it. Some mappers are not around anymore though so a listing would be helpful

[FLOZi]

Smoth can come across as abrasive; I should know, we have had our disagreements in the past. But you should respect his position.

edit: Bah, didn't see the 2nd page.

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

You can always use cheat and choose a start pos for the AI and then switch back to your team.

I Agree. However, from a single players point if view it is nicer to extract and edit the .smd file so that when you go back to the map it is fit to play.

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

oh, they have a tool to do map start points. Perhaps I am not coming across right. It isn't considered ridicule to list the maps that have start points you feel need to be looked at. If someone is offended then blame it on me citing the fact that I suggested you do it. However, some people forboding angel is one of them, have several maps with bad start points, he knows it. Some mappers are not around anymore though so a listing would be helpful

I tried at couple of the tools but find it better to load the map, send out a Fink to find where the start point is and then edit the .smd in my \maps folder. As previously mentioned, I can also check out the MEX and tweak that to suit my personal preference at the same time. K, so I cheat a bit but it is my 'puter and I am playing for my enjoyment so what's the harm?

I have got to T... with only a few to go before competing the list. I have no log of the modified files and short of starting again I can see no reliable way of listing 'offending' maps.

If others want to list maps here, I have no objection.

[smoth]

One way I use is to take a screenshot when my cursor is over the place I want a start point. That way you can go ahead and grab several coordinates quickly.

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

One way I use is to take a screenshot when my cursor is over the place I want a start point. That way you can go ahead and grab several coordinates quickly.

I find it easier from in-game to pause and zoom in to the desired location with nothing selected. The tooltip, bottom left; shows the cursor coordinates. take notes and edit the .smd file as neeeded. I see what you mean about screen shots but then you still need to open them in an viewer to read the coordinates. Either way you get what you need.

[j5mello]

if i may offer just a bit more to this discussion...

many mappers probably ignore start points for the sheer reason that their maps are going to be played using the choose-start-pos setting.

[AF]

*_*

[hunterw]

Hi newguy who presumes too much. Let me explain something very simple, I help a lot of people, mappers, content developers etc. Now, I am also one of the veterans of this board? The relevance? I know most of the mappers and many of them have made 10 or more maps, they may or may not remember what maps they dinked up the start points on. Now, before you jump on someone consider their intentions.

I do not expect you to know who or what I am around here, you are new, and I have to ALWAYS put it all on the table for you new guys. However, this is not the C.S. community, outside of a few personal issues the people on this forum want to see spring succeed and do well. So when spotting issues on a map, there is nothing wrong with pointing it out. Most of us work as a community and frankly we, myself included, want to see all spring content at it's best, that includes the work of others. So consider that next time you make assumptions about a myself or others.


Further more, many mappers are so busy that they do not have time to check their work for issues as they are working forward and not back. So, it may HELP to point these things out. Some maps have issues and are unplayable all together, I am an UF admin. If such a map exists I can fix the file or even lock it if the file is all together bad!

So again, we are here to help, not to hurt. Remember that.

Did you actually read and think about ALL my first post? Did you miss the PS? Sounds like it to me.

OK, so let's take this one point at a time.

"New Guy" Sheesh what a presumption. Just because my post count is low does not mean I can not read. Rule 1 of being a forum member - READ LOTS before even thinking about posting. As for when I registered - previous applies - read, register post in that order. So you registered and posted before me - big deal, it is quality not age/posts that counts.

"I help a lot of people, mappers, content developers etc." SO why the crap start points if you are so helpfull?

"I am also one of the veterans of this board" = egotist. 'Nuf said.

"Now, before you jump on someone consider their intentions." I said I would not 'name and shame' so how am I "jumping on someone"?

"I do not expect you to know who or what I am around here" "I have to ALWAYS put it all on the table for you new guys" back to the ego trip again?

"this is not the C.S. community" WOW I would never have guessed. Somehow the fact that I am posting about Spring on the Spring forum never occurred to me.

"outside of a few personal issues the people on this forum want to see spring succeed and do well" Again - read the PS on my first post.

"So when spotting issues on a map, there is nothing wrong with pointing it out. Most of us work as a community and frankly we, myself included, want to see all spring content at it's best" So I spotted an issue and pointed it out and as my PS said, it was with the intention of making a positive contribution.

"So consider that next time you make assumptions about a myself or others" WTF? You suggested naming the offenders and I declined. What assumption?

"Further more, many mappers are so busy that they do not have time to check their work for issues as they are working forward and not back." That is my whole point. Why bother releasing a map that is not playable? As for "working forward and not back" how do you work forwards if the initial product is crap? Does the concept of quality over quantity mean nothing to you? Why bother releasing garbage that wastes peoples time? Further more, releasing a bunch of junk maps is hardly going to get you respected. I am merely raising a small issue in the hopes of benefiting those people that think that quantity/speed is the goal instaed of quality.

"So, it may HELP to point these things out" So what is this thread about then? I saw a small issue and pointed it out. For that I get your abuse.

"I am an UF admin. If such a map exists I can fix the file or even lock it if the file is all together bad!" Not quite doing your job then are you.

"So again, we are here to help, not to hurt. Remember that." Again WTF?

I would suggest that you walk away from the keyboard. Go outside and get some fresh air. Clear the fuzzy thinking. When you come back, read the thread again from the beginning and THINK about what is being said before missing the point again. Remember the golden rules of forum posting.

1 - Read and fully understand the issue before posting.

2 - STOP, THINK, Then if you are sure, post.

3 - It is quality of posts not quantity that counts.

Paul.

P.S. I am not interested in a flamewar. If you come back with more of this garbage, it will be ignored as this thread has a purpose.

you and smoth will get along just fine

[Forboding Angel]

Devon, you're going about this all wrong. Furthermore, from my skimming of this thread you're pissing off all the wrong people.

Anyway, the only thing I want to add to the discussion is that any maps by me, noize, hrmph, mufdvr, icexuick, smoth and (I believe, as I'm pretty sure I would have noticed) hunter, will have non disked up starting positions. I play mostly offline as well, with KAI (Which just so happens btw to be the only reason for Fun:TA's existence).

[Paul-in-Devon-UK]

Devon, you're going about this all wrong. Furthermore, from my skimming of this thread you're pissing off all the wrong people.

Anyway, the only thing I want to add to the discussion is that any maps by me, noize, hrmph, mufdvr, icexuick, smoth and (I believe, as I'm pretty sure I would have noticed) hunter, will have non disked up starting positions. I play mostly offline as well, with KAI (Which just so happens btw to be the only reason for Fun:TA's existence).

K. So how should I be doing this? I am open to suggestions.

As for pissing people off - sorted! Skimming sometimes misses the important bits.

While you play offline it is still multiplayer which is different to using SpringSP, Skirmish. That is how I and other Single Players try to use your maps.

All I am asking is that you and others take a few moments to set up vaild playable SPs for skirmish so that the people like me can enjoy your creations straight out of the box. Not every player like me will know how/bother to fix the SP so it is playable in Skirmish. We may be a minority to you but are still valid users. You are missing an opportunity to have your hard work appreciated by even more people.

[smoth]

in all fairness forb, edola prime still needs it's start points corrected.

[Forboding Angel]

No it doesn't. 1 and 2 are supposed to start very near each other. The metal is set up to support that.

Devon, also remember you can start the game withe choose start points and then before you set your start point hit .cheat then do .team 1-whatever and set their start points, then switch back to your team and set it and hit ready.

[smoth]

? I thought you intended on it being a large team map?

[AF]

The correct way to go about it was the method I was doing, pming mappers.

All these maps should be re-released with corrected positions and new version numbers.

Smoth, I think what you said should have been via pm because ti exploded this thread and started a somewhat hostile arguement that threatened to derail the whole point of the thread.