I do acknowledge I fucked it up somewhat when I let gizmo give Tobi a correction file for some bug, hell I don't even remember and gizmo renamed it Gold Edition. I am not good with communication with people, or giving awesome change logs that are smaller than 5 kbs. I bugged the AI somehow with a broken SFX. I do not know where it is or why AI crashes. I was going to rearrange tech 2 but that will be 75b3 if needed for xta v 9.1. I may be stupid but people do not even play xta sea v 8 or lower, it was just awfully weird.
We cannot do anything about xta v9 and xta v9 until Tobi comes back from his vacation. I hate it but we have to wait and be patient at the moment. I go to work on other crap, while Tobi on vacation.
Theres still so much to be done and I am still in High school and while I take a short break to catch up on summer assignments I check on this forum and I do not know about deleted posts on xta forums and crap.
Get more mature, grow some balls and let then let them drop, but do not let the eagles grab them. You can make posts abit nicer to prevent all of this crap.
major utter complete epic fail reposted
Moderator: Moderators
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The_Big_Boss
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 17 Jul 2006, 04:00
If any organization limits itself to only rhetoric containing neutral or praise only remarks then usually that organization usually stales out or collapses dramatically in a shorter time frame than an organization that accepts a wider range of comments. I believe a neutral or praise only environment on an xta forum is a bad thing. For example, I didnt even focus on the urgency of the problem until someone put the problem into focus revealing that urgency that needed to be fixed.
Months ago i posted rhetoric that disagreed, insulted, and challenged ideas on the xta forum, for people were making silly balancing remarks without thinking it through. After I made the postings, the IQ of the community went up ten fold because everyone was now cautious and on their toes now that an enemy of spam ideas had arrived, and as planned, the posts were microd better and improved. I, however, did not attack the people nor the character, but only the arguments, which may indirectly attack a person's credibilty, but that is life, since a person's actions reflect credibility and the outward reputation or honor. I did not blabber, I did make arguments in good will, but after consideration i concluded that maybe i was to harsh and I backed down. To which then the posts went blah again sometime after. Just somehow the community just looses that good focus when someone isnt being, i should say, honest. (+1 to trenchor)
Now that the community wants to fix the situation, AF has won in more ways than one or intended, because now stuff will get done more than if he replied or didnothing quietly at all.
And about AF playing BA...Noraus plays BA and he is the Dev. Granted, he hates it, but he was attempting to reach out and understand what makes BA attractive, something not done with any past dev before(It was also done to keep from growing stalks of arrogance). AND we LEARNED ALLOT, that it wasnt simply "stupid lazy people" playing BA.
We had this goal and this method in mind>>
It is easier to walk from restaurant A to restaurant B, and then introduce the argument/bait on their terms to get the people from restaurant B to restaurant A. To simply scream at them from across the street their own food tastes better is the more difficult approach, the far more difficult approach. And why should they come? Restaurant B works just fine for them. Why doesn't restaurant A convert over to restaurant B and stop being jerk offs.
Simply put, If techniques that dont work continue to not work, why do we continue to use them expecting a different result each time? That is the definition of insanity. At least AF has the experience and a better view point of BA to try something different. The balancing error dirrectly had very little to do with BA players hating xta, and trying to further tweak the balance like we had in the past will probably result in the same results as we are now, and we are still struggling now.
I really dont think it should be a BA versus XTA or CA thing, but we all have our sense of pride and 'nationalisim' (modalisim sounds weird) and the love of one mod will bring a sense of hate towards another. Very few people can have the feelings of that high love without the feelings of resentment towards something else, and I doubt our community is higher than everyone else to achieve such a enlightenment. Im sure not.
Censoring is something governments do, and look at the people's resentment and distrust. Even for all the good, their rep is just blah. Maybe in a different age it would of been acceptable, but in this age, for better or worse, it isnt, and isnt something to be emulated.
As far as im concerned an accident is just an accident and should be judged differently then something directly done on purpose. Even a string of accidents doesnt nearly match the worth of a string of deliberate and malicious causes or effects. I think a pause and a cautious attempt for a reconciliation will now be the best course of action for the mod, and for the community.
Months ago i posted rhetoric that disagreed, insulted, and challenged ideas on the xta forum, for people were making silly balancing remarks without thinking it through. After I made the postings, the IQ of the community went up ten fold because everyone was now cautious and on their toes now that an enemy of spam ideas had arrived, and as planned, the posts were microd better and improved. I, however, did not attack the people nor the character, but only the arguments, which may indirectly attack a person's credibilty, but that is life, since a person's actions reflect credibility and the outward reputation or honor. I did not blabber, I did make arguments in good will, but after consideration i concluded that maybe i was to harsh and I backed down. To which then the posts went blah again sometime after. Just somehow the community just looses that good focus when someone isnt being, i should say, honest. (+1 to trenchor)
Now that the community wants to fix the situation, AF has won in more ways than one or intended, because now stuff will get done more than if he replied or didnothing quietly at all.
And about AF playing BA...Noraus plays BA and he is the Dev. Granted, he hates it, but he was attempting to reach out and understand what makes BA attractive, something not done with any past dev before(It was also done to keep from growing stalks of arrogance). AND we LEARNED ALLOT, that it wasnt simply "stupid lazy people" playing BA.
We had this goal and this method in mind>>
It is easier to walk from restaurant A to restaurant B, and then introduce the argument/bait on their terms to get the people from restaurant B to restaurant A. To simply scream at them from across the street their own food tastes better is the more difficult approach, the far more difficult approach. And why should they come? Restaurant B works just fine for them. Why doesn't restaurant A convert over to restaurant B and stop being jerk offs.
Simply put, If techniques that dont work continue to not work, why do we continue to use them expecting a different result each time? That is the definition of insanity. At least AF has the experience and a better view point of BA to try something different. The balancing error dirrectly had very little to do with BA players hating xta, and trying to further tweak the balance like we had in the past will probably result in the same results as we are now, and we are still struggling now.
I really dont think it should be a BA versus XTA or CA thing, but we all have our sense of pride and 'nationalisim' (modalisim sounds weird) and the love of one mod will bring a sense of hate towards another. Very few people can have the feelings of that high love without the feelings of resentment towards something else, and I doubt our community is higher than everyone else to achieve such a enlightenment. Im sure not.
Censoring is something governments do, and look at the people's resentment and distrust. Even for all the good, their rep is just blah. Maybe in a different age it would of been acceptable, but in this age, for better or worse, it isnt, and isnt something to be emulated.
As far as im concerned an accident is just an accident and should be judged differently then something directly done on purpose. Even a string of accidents doesnt nearly match the worth of a string of deliberate and malicious causes or effects. I think a pause and a cautious attempt for a reconciliation will now be the best course of action for the mod, and for the community.
I failed to see the agressivity in AF's first post. I failed to see the attack on XTA's devs. I failed to see the trolling. It sounded much more like the call of distressed man.
I would like to stress that he said, in bold:
That said I only skimmed that thread, and when big drama like that splode on the forum, there's usually loads of backstory behind, which I am unaware of in this case, so maybe if I knew the full story, I wouldn't so hastily judge AF rightful.
I would like to stress that he said, in bold:
and the rest of his post makes it quite clear, he's a XTA supporter that was just despaired to see a mod he liked be ruined by something so stupidly easy to fix. For instance, personnaly, in such a situation, I would have just went "LoL, xta is phail, let's forget it and use CA in the installer instead.". But instead AF wents on to analyse in details the XTA issues and how to fix them. Which, sorry to contradict you Peet, constitute a valid constructive comment.There's nothing wrong with the mod itself, infact its quite good. IMO its one of the greatest versions ever released.
That said I only skimmed that thread, and when big drama like that splode on the forum, there's usually loads of backstory behind, which I am unaware of in this case, so maybe if I knew the full story, I wouldn't so hastily judge AF rightful.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
The backstory for Trench0r:I bet a lot of people have a bone to pick with AF... myself included... you all know AF "sicked" det on me for harassment cause I kicked him from MY OWN game? (for the sync errors he's complaining about, as I have no doubt he's still rampaging from our little debacle)
One morning around 5am I'd not slept that ngiht, I went into a 1v1 on cooper hill and forgot that you were supposed to rush to the middle in my drowsy slumber. Trench0r rushed and built a HLT and won, so I asked if we could have a rematch as that maps unbalanced anyway with rock distributions and so on. Instead he threw it back at me and become the ungraceful bad winner, after which wether I was a man or a woman became the topic, to which I joked and said "I refuse to confirm or deny it".
Of course he joked about it but the joke never went away even after I said to stop. After a few days it was obvious he was just doing it to annoy me, which in itself I could just ignore and handle, but he was quite persistent with it, and started acting petty, somewhat like peet but without the total refusal to acknowledge.
In the end I got tired of the harassment and pm'ed trench0r asking him to stop, and in reply he made a distasteful remark about tampons and maxis. Det to ask if he'd talk to him, hoping maybe that little spanner would encourage trench0r to keep those fingers typing about other things.
In the meantime peet still insists that it was not censorship, I'm still banned from the XTA forums.
This is what peet had to say on the XTA forums:
To which I point out, peet is not a moderator in the lobby or on this forum. If I repost somethign he deemed innapropriate for the XTA forum elsewhere thats none of his business. It is not going above him as a moderator simply put because its outside his scope of authority, and his attempt to then punish me for being within my rights is abuse of that trust in trust he has been bestowed for the XTA forums.I followed my personal policy of banning people who circumvent my moderation (Flop is the only other ban atm, he reposted useless crap in a thread I was attempting to moderate, while I was asking him to bugger off), and banned AF last night. As you can see on the Spring forum, he reposted something that I asked him to tone down before putting on these boards. That is why he is banned.
I will accept an appeal, perhaps, if the epic arrogance (He acted as if he was above my moderation) ends (so basically its a permaban, because that's most likely not going to happen).
Perhaps, if I was expressing Epic arrogance in reposting, I would be somewhat more hurtful and abusive in my wording?
Since I'm unable to defend myself from attacks on the XTA forum any longer, I shall make the necessary arguements here in short.
I do post there. Maybe not that often, I know when I suggest things they usually go in one ear and out the other so I simply dont put the effort in unless I really think it matters. Lets say I posted every idea I had and contributed everything I could, there'd be a lot of threads with no replies and useless things floating around.Gizmo wrote:on second thoughts he never posts anyways so theres no point at all roflmao
But then again its not like I have commitments elsewhere, I couldnt possibly have a degree to work for or a lobby project to push on with or an AI to maintain, and I'd never dream I had commitments to helping develop the spring site and numerous other things.
I read the XTA changelogs, I read most changelogs I see, I like to see exactly what has changed when things are updated, and to make sure everything I have is updated to the very latest version as soon as possible. So yeah maybe sometimes I might get a line wrong, I might not mention the full geaneology of a set of changes and give cedit to that list of names when making a passing reference.
But does that mean I've forfeited all rights to an opinion and a say? Do I really need a gigantic post count a forum for what I say to not be dismissed? As the n#1 poster here I'd say my postcount has probably hurt my standing more than its helped. People say my postcount is scary and make fun of it. Somehow I doubt when I go into the dev forum and announce 0.75b3 should have a bannana logo people will listen.
So perhaps I'm not the one who needs to grow up. Afterall I'm not the only on who fails to see the supposed vicious attack in my post, or even what could be seen as an attack. The suggestion that I am now slandering the work on XTA itself is proposterous, not once have I attacked the models scripts, sfx, and copious effort exerted by XTA developers to bring forward the work of art they've accomplished. My one crime was to criticize the hasty delivery of that art and the consequences that followed.its not his oppinion that is offensive but the blatant pathetic bitching that came with it, thats why i went nuts.
I havent bitched, I've simply taken whats been thrown at em and corrected it methodically
the guy has no idea of the development progress let alone reads the change logs, as show by his void reasoning why he thinks the devs are "screwing things up"
I do read the changelogs. I never said the devs screwed up XTA, my point was the release fo XTA was screwed up not XTA itself. I have said XTA is a great mod already and I have the greatest of respect for its developers
imo he should have his powers as #xta op revoked and the control given to Tobi/Pintle/Ik
Tobi has admin status he can do what he likes in #xta regardless of chanserv already, pintle and Ivory arent on enough but have the necessary powers to moderate there already. So far the only hiccups in my founder status of #xta have been Tsu abusing banbot to ban peet and banbot beign used to ban [k] clan after they collectively attacked and abused the bots accidentally banning quantum which was corrected. These bots are no longer in #xta and banbots wont be making a return trip anytime soon. Trench0r being muted wasnt a personal vendetta, I just dont think hearing about a womans private parts in an insult is appropriate for #xta.
except his info on the nano lights he has done nothing constructive for xta, and by far has made a negative impact on xta as a hole.
I have given advice to the people in XTA about my opinions and issues they've had long before you even arrived in this community. And that simple fix for the team coloured nanospray problem wasnt a quick idea, it was several days of work trying to get an engine patch going that failed. Did you not notice the pictures of EE flamer bots with team coloured fire? What about me exclusively supporting XTA for a year and a half despite growing pressure to support AA at my own loss? You dont know what yor're talking about gizmo, and a tit for tat contribution discussion isnt going to get us anywhere.
he has even fallen out with Peet n said he is feeding me poison about my views roflmao, falling out with peet is about as hard as getting needidow to tell mother terraiser to frak off. i dont know the history behind this, neither is it my business but the fact he is such a person and has the control over xta chan and abuses it to his own benefits to bad who ever is pissing him off is wrong.
On the contrary, I know Peet well enough that when he gets pissed off hell want to vent his anger and joke about it. However you can see his lies in this thread, where he's observed something and read false things into them, for example, suggesting I was manipulating XTA devs during the day then playing BA at night when they werent looking.
he goes from being informative to out right nasty at a flick of a hat n i dont want him representing the xta chan at all.
When provoked I will defend myself. You and peet provoked me, so i defended myself. You both had the chance to steer this entire thing in a completely different direction yet you chose to enrage yourselves and attack me.
the problem with the xta version names was avoidable n i did try to point that out to myg but he did it anyways. He was rushed and did what he thought was best, it is true that we need a real "LEAD" modder than someone popping along without a debate about what is to be done n then doing it anyways, despite the time frame. The version name has caused problems FACT, all that needs to be done is a single person having total control over the naming scheme.
Yes a lead modder would be a good idea, why didnt you say this on the XTA forums earlier? I dont see any people putting themselves forward, or even a healthy discussion, not even an unhealthy one.
Infact I think I just said what AF needed to say but without the ranting bull attached to it. Peet asked him to that, no one would of had a problem with that, he was just being a jerk n THATS why he should be at least temp banned untill he shuts up n grows up.
I'm not the one throwing around fancy bot commands and making silly remarks to be childish, boycotting channels. I've expressed a view and now I'm methodically quashing the counter arguements that seem the silliest.
But more so, what I said in my post wasnt just the simple phrase 'we need a lead modder in XTA in charge of releases', it was much more than that, it even pointed out problems with the lobby itself.
BigBoss is right, censoring the gritty things that arent polite and weak doesnt make for a good healthy discussion. Sometimes you need that little jolt to keep you on your feet and really mke you think. It doesnt have to be offensive, but its easy to quickly start seeing everything and anything as possibly offensive. In the situation of my thread, I would have waited for other people to complain or at least asked for their opinions before I acted just to be sure.
And if you really think that this is now a personal vendetta of mine, it is you who have the grudges and vendettas now. I have been defending myself pure and simple. There's been no bitching and backstabbing on my behalf.
As for #xta founder status. There've been numerous times since I first gained it that the other people in #xta have had the chance to replace me and they havent, and I'm sure it will happen again in the future.
I hope that soon this whole thing can be resolved and I can see gizmo and peet listed in #xta again.
Pretty much the basis of all this, as Gizmo articulated fairly well.Infact i think i just said what AF needed to say but without the ranting bull attached to it. Peet asked him to that, no one would of had a problem with that, he was just being a jerk n THATS why he should be at least temp banned untill he shuts up n grows up.
I'll say it again, I DO agree with the content of your original post. I just wanted you to remove the things such as "sheer incompetence", which you refused to do.
But it is sheer incompetence!Peet wrote:Pretty much the basis of all this, as Gizmo articulated fairly well.Infact i think i just said what AF needed to say but without the ranting bull attached to it. Peet asked him to that, no one would of had a problem with that, he was just being a jerk n THATS why he should be at least temp banned untill he shuts up n grows up.
I'll say it again, I DO agree with the content of your original post. I just wanted you to remove the things such as "sheer incompetence", which you refused to do.
Indeed it is sheer incompetence. We're all capable of it and to deny it is to be oversensitive. This is political correctness in the extremes.
You cant nanny a community into being polite by removing all traces of anything that seems disagreeable or unhappy. That happy love and hugs atmosphere wont come about through censorship, and thats what it is. When you remove content you're censoring it, fullstop.
You cant nanny a community into being polite by removing all traces of anything that seems disagreeable or unhappy. That happy love and hugs atmosphere wont come about through censorship, and thats what it is. When you remove content you're censoring it, fullstop.
Wikipedia wrote:Censorship is defined as the removal and/or withholding of information from the public by a controlling group or body.
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
Mimic failed, KOTRT attack Relative.
I haven't seen the original post.
From what I've learned is that it was over the line from Pete's point of view. So all Pete wanted was a toned down version of AF's post. AF's been given a chance to, well, tone it down and repost then. Now what's wrong with that?
On a side note...
I haven't seen the original post.
From what I've learned is that it was over the line from Pete's point of view. So all Pete wanted was a toned down version of AF's post. AF's been given a chance to, well, tone it down and repost then. Now what's wrong with that?
Nah, it's his right to do so. Imagine how much trouble or unnecessary drama it would stir up. This thread's a prime example. :PBoirunner wrote:the original post sounds like AF is in the throes of uber PMS, but deleting a thread like that because you think it's too aggressive it is so petty it wants me to bitchslap peets manboobs.
On a side note...
Felix the Cat wrote:The amount of drama in this thread makes my head explode :shock:
here's a little HTML [/fiction]
The backstory for Trench0r:
One morning around 5am I'd not slept that ngiht, I went into a 1v1 on cooper hill and forgot that you were supposed to rush to the middle in my drowsy slumber. Trench0r rushed and built a HLT and won, so I asked if we could have a rematch as that maps unbalanced anyway with rock distributions and so on. Instead he threw it back at me and become the ungraceful bad winner, after which wether I was a man or a woman became the topic, to which I joked and said "I refuse to confirm or deny it".
Of course he joked about it but the joke never went away even after I said to stop. After a few days it was obvious he was just doing it to annoy me, which in itself I could just ignore and handle, but he was quite persistent with it, and started acting petty, somewhat like peet but without the total refusal to acknowledge.
In the end I got tired of the harassment and pm'ed trench0r asking him to stop, and in reply he made a distasteful remark about tampons and maxis. Det to ask if he'd talk to him, hoping maybe that little spanner would encourage trench0r to keep those fingers typing about other things.
kthx af.. I extended my offer of apology and this is what I get, first of all you admit to convo'ing me and you never once told me you were a man, never, secondly you were harassing ME for a rematch, you life in the USA? you say it was 5am and you were drowsy? try the EAST COAST fella! guess who else was tired and drowsy? I'll give you the answer, so you don't have to reflame, it was me
so don't convo me and then tell det I was harrassing you, I don't care if you think you don't need to grow up, the majority of the XTA community does, and for you BA players, (this is not the thread you are looking for) *waves hand in front of face*
ONCE AGAIN I will not be BULLIED, and this time it's by SLANDER I will not allow your lies to flow ceaseless anymore AF, you can say what you want but don't you dare ruin my reputation, I do enough of that for myself!
now I ONCE AGAIN extend my apologies if that will suffice ................... but you have shown it will not ....................... I extend them ONCE again graciously and then I don't care what your friend det has to say....
kk I hope this ends it cause I'm not extending another olive branch....
[/flame]
