Balanced Annihilation 5.4 is out

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 07 Jun 2007, 14:06

Boirunner wrote:[ ] A t2 anti-swarm unit to counter flash- and stumpyspam so people actually tech again

The Goliath.

Boirunner · Post by **Boirunner** » 07 Jun 2007, 15:19

tombom wrote:The Goliath.

Lolsquad_Steven wrote:micro?

I dunno, maybe I just suck at microing my Gollies. But in all the pro 1on1 games I've watched lately, nobody teched.

But I'll be switching to CA as soon as they're done with it, so no worries

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 07 Jun 2007, 15:33

Why tech when you can just spam hundreds of units that cost way less, and are less likely to fail at overcoming the enemy?

Odds are, if you spam LVL-1 units fast enough, your enemy will be so busy that he will trip and fall and dgun himself in the foot.

Gollies and bulldogs are too slow to acomplish this.

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 07 Jun 2007, 15:49

MR.D wrote:Why tech when you can just spam hundreds of units that cost way less, and are less likely to fail at overcoming the enemy?

Would the mod team consider reducing the cost of t2 labs? It's the biggest factor in stopping me teching when i play (although the extremely marginal benefits t2 units have over their t1 conouterparts is a close second).

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 07 Jun 2007, 16:27

pintle wrote:
MR.D wrote:Why tech when you can just spam hundreds of units that cost way less, and are less likely to fail at overcoming the enemy?
Would the mod team consider reducing the cost of t2 labs? It's the biggest factor in stopping me teching when i play (although the extremely marginal benefits t2 units have over their t1 conouterparts is a close second).

I've always felt that this would be a good thought.

Consider in OTA, most T2 stuff was _worse_ than T1 stuff, but provided the player with unique tactics not available at T1. Pop-ups had shorter range than conventional defenses. Zeuses were even slower and even shorter-ranged. That's why there was no T1 artillery - if you wanted specialized stuff like that, you were supposed to go T2. The problem is that T2 is expensive to get to.

Balance T1 and T2 together, and then make T2 cheaper.

Still, that gameplay is fundamentally opposed to the way BA was designed, and would be better as an experimental mutator or a whole new mod.

carpja · Post by **carpja** » 07 Jun 2007, 17:42

all right Sleksa, i was in line at best buy on day 1 when TA came out, dont remember seeing you there.

LOS is ALWAYS better than radar. units hit more accurately. having a non recon veh see farther than a recon veh is baffling to me. i never said missle trucks are siege breaking units that will defeat a base, but a player could use missle trucks to hold territory. if you hold more territory than the enemy you will probably win. so fine, DT your 25% of the map. i'll take that anyday. i like to see ppl try to build heavy laser towers and plasma cannons when its raining missles.

wtf does turret turning radius matter when you getting hit from 700 range away? answer; nothing.

spare me the "real life" crap you spewed. last time i checked tanks, fighter planes, nuclear weapons, and radar towers exist in reality. TA is reality based (remember reading the back of the OTA box?).

my primary calculator is between my ears. thanx

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 07 Jun 2007, 17:56

Uhm, excuse me, lads, but combine a few posts here...

i think missle trucks are overpowered 5.3 and below. generally speaking, a unit that shoots farther should have less health. like artillery. the trade off for range is that if an enemy unit gets close, you're toast. i've seen missle trucks hold off/defeat tanks. they already chew LLT's, and like i said above they can chase a commander without ever getting close to dgun range. missle trucks with radar and a little micro are deadly. now you dont even need radar.

Carpja made good points here.

if one unassisted samson can kill infinity unassisted LLTs then that is dumb

Only against a foolish player, but a valid point as well.

Missile trucks weren't underpowered before, however they got made better, that seems odd. Also even if you don't believe T1 vehicles are fundamentally better than T1 kbots, it is widely agreed upon that vehicles is "the easy factory", so I don't see why a basic t1 vehicle thats been in there since the beginning of time got buffed all of a sudden.

This one speaks for itself. Machio hit it on the head, which makes sense because he is a pretty solid player of AA/BA/CA.

making a long range unit have long LOS makes it easier to use unsupported

Captain obvious, but also a good point.

LOS is ALWAYS better than radar. units hit more accurately. having a non recon veh see farther than a recon veh is baffling to me. i never said missle trucks are siege breaking units that will defeat a base, but a player could use missle trucks to hold territory.

In the context of Spring, completely true.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suggest you review this change. There is compelling and logical support for repealing it, and I myself consider it a balance concern. You're allowed to make errors, and the fact that you risk it makes people like Ray respect your judgment, but you should attempt to avoid lasting mistakes.

Oh, and this isn't a personal debate. This is a game-based debate. Leave the egos and yo-momma jokes at home.

PRO_rANDY · Post by **PRO_rANDY** » 07 Jun 2007, 18:13

u can kill samsons easy with flashes lolz cos flashes cost less lolz!

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 07 Jun 2007, 18:20

PRO_rANDY wrote:u can kill samsons easy with flashes lolz cos flashes cost less lolz!

True, of course. Nobody asserted that there wasn't any counter at all. Just that the unit was overly effective.

PRO_rANDY · Post by **PRO_rANDY** » 07 Jun 2007, 18:26

its all a matter of opinion, in my opinion LLT was over-effective until now.

Day · Post by **Day** » 07 Jun 2007, 18:55

REPLAYS PLEASE

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 07 Jun 2007, 19:17

Carpja, even if you were the first on the ota to play , i would still flame you on this one. Youre talking like the slasher is the only unit you ever need to win

Having a non recon veh see farther than a recon may seem baffling, but the recon vehicle is thrice as fast, and i'd rather send jeffies to scout than slashers. If a player holds territory with slasher ill say good job well played. Also i didnt talk about dt:ing every single windmill in your base, i was thinking about something like this

X
X O
X

Where X is dt and O is the llt

sorry if i said turret turning radius, i was talking about the _unit_ turning, this means that the unit has hard time to run from flash/gater.

also i wont spare you from the real life crap you spew.
TA is reality based (remember reading the back of the OTA box?).
TA is reality based (remember reading the back of the OTA box?).
TA is reality based (remember reading the back of the OTA box?).
TA is reality based (remember reading the back of the OTA box?).

LAST TIME I CHECKED ABRAHMS TANKS DONT SHOOT LASERS AND SUMO TANKS DONT GUARD STREETS IN IRAQ, ALSO ARTILLERY DOESNT SHOOT PLASMABALLS. GG

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 07 Jun 2007, 19:28

PRO_rANDY wrote:its all a matter of opinion, in my opinion LLT was over-effective until now.

Funny thing, that was an idea tossed around by most E&E players.

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 07 Jun 2007, 20:04

Boirunner wrote:

edit: My BA wishlist

[ ] A t2 anti-swarm unit to counter flash- and stumpyspam so people actually tech again
[ ] cool effects

the t2 anti-swarm unit is called goliath.

cool effects = more smoke and yellow shit so you can't see your units aka CA.

also all you guys complaining about slashers must have never heard of a unit called flash. I know it's a rarely used unit but hey guess what it's pretty good check it out.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 07 Jun 2007, 20:31

Just because there is a counter to something doesn't make it a balanced element of the game. I can counter a Pointer in Kernel Panic 1.0 firing at my start location two ways, with Bits or with a Pointer of my own. The fact that it will kill my start location in four hits and the fact that there are so few solutions indicates an issue with the balance there. It is no different here.

For strategic depth, you know there should be multiple fairly effective counters from different areas of the game. The fact that the Flash is the counter to all slow long range units with low rate of fire and/or DPS is not acceptable grounds on which to dismiss an issue once raised. It is acceptable grounds on whichto question the position of the Flash again, however.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 07 Jun 2007, 20:42

since when is a change that doesn't completely screw up the game automatically a good change?
you could give morty 100 extra hp and it wouldn't be to overpowered, thing is everyone knows its fine, so you need to explain your changes if their cause isn't obvious or people will assume you're just randomly making changes.

Day · Post by **Day** » 07 Jun 2007, 21:01

i dont care if people assume im doing random changes, as long as the game is good

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 07 Jun 2007, 21:04

ok, fuck subtlety and arguments: why did you buff missile trucks?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 07 Jun 2007, 21:20

Machiosabre wrote:ok, fuck subtlety and arguments: why did you buff missile trucks?

Seconded. Why the hell?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 07 Jun 2007, 22:16

I guess it makes them more usefull :)

But its all day's fault, he made me do it.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation 5.4 is out