StarCraft

[rattle]

I'm only trying to understand why this communitity hates SC so much.

Limited resources, RPS balancing, messed up proportions, limited groups, too much micro involved,.... I think I'll never like blizzard games. WC1 is the only one I really enjoyed. Anything after WC1 is utter crap IMO. Same goes to their imagination of RPGs (diablo series).
It's all personal preference in the end.

I wouldn't mind if you added features from starcraft to spring though. New features are generally welcome.

PS: I liked money maps. I can't stand it if you're forced to move your ass from one resource location to another. That's why I never played homeworld without (small) resource injections or bounty hunter. :)

[Lolsquad_Steven]

From my understanding people here hate starcraft because they want to think they're better than starcraft players.

[Dragon45]

If you're referring to me, I don't hate Starcraft. Hate is a very strong word. I just don't like it. It's boring, and I don't want to measure ultimate skill (as i have heard) in # clicks a minute.

[Neddie]

From my understanding people here hate starcraft because they want to think they're better than starcraft players.

If that is all you got from my posts, Steven, you have a serious problem.

[Cainen]

With money maps there were too many units, especially with the 12 unit selection, but without them there weren't enough for my tastes and they built too slowly either way. That, and the 5 unit queue was annoying; I like to fire and forget then pick them back up once they're done, not continually check back to keep adding units to the build list.

I think you're the one who's ignorant, myself. I've played it and have pointed out why I don't like the game; why does that make me bad or ignorant? A fanbase that's managed to delude themselves into thinking that micromanagement alone is the point of an RTS is one strike. Forced micromanagement through several means is another. And the kicker is that I enjoyed TA much, much more than I did Starcraft. TA was out a year before SC was and The Core Contingency came out in the same month Starcraft did.

[ronkkrop]

ha ha...i don't think you're ignorant, and saying i am is without warrant. i haven't once said i don't like TA, or made any comparisons between TA and SC. I have simply defended SC against some of your claims.

ha ha, It's almost like SC has hurt this community on some deep emotional level, or you've all become accustomed to the odd idiot who runs in screaming "SC ROXXXORS, TA BLOZORS!".

You guys have to admit there were some good things about SC. The graphics we're awesome, as most blizzard games are. The storyline was intriguing, which also trained you for net play, so you didn't go into b.net looking like a total noob. I like the concept of gathering resources (mind you C&C did this a lot better, i thought). I also really like depleting resources, having to move your base really added another dimension to the game. You really had to plan ahead knowing your resources would run out after your next rush so you really had to keep planning 2 or 3 steps ahead. Maps we're really cool. Triggers really added to the whole game. The ability to make some of the craziest maps was pretty awesome (not so much the maps, but the very fact that it was that customizable). 3 balanced races. That takes A LOT of thought and effort, and was definitely the coolest concept of the time.

[Neddie]

I loved it at the time. That would be 1998.

[Sleksa]

No No No No No No NO!!!!

I have no idea why you say that a game with finite resources is inferior compared to one with infinite resources. What does it actually matter?

Its like some starcraft player coming to spring and after 2 speedmetal games saying: What kind of strategy game is this? All i need to do is to balance out resources to combat unit production. This isnt real time strategy , this is real time balance. This is how you sound.

A game does not need to be super innovative and perfectly balanced for it to be succesful. OTA had balance flaws and that spesifically made it a awesome game IMO. Mass hawks and hawkdancing are a good example of enjoyable gameplay and a good example on a fucked up engine(admit it, you've linebombed and hawkdanced or you havent played OTA at all!).

What comes to sc and wc3, wc3 had some unique things to it(heroes, third party enemies(creeps), mercenaries and items on heroes), Should we start dissing it just because it uses goldmines and woodchoppers like warcraft 2 did before it?

Af especially does seem to have somekind of hate against starcraft without knowing actually about the game itself.

[There just isnt enough resources on starcraft maps, homeworld 1+" did it right with small asteroid fields that had like 80k resources but would last a long time being mined, you'd need more asteroids to mine because of the queues of harvesters waiting tog et at the asteroids.]

Not true. Usually there are as many units in play as there are in ta. Depending on player's skills and the size of the maps, you need expansion in economical level on wc3/starcraft/other RTS games too, its not just limited to Infinite resource model games.

[CC1, Homeworld, OTA, total war, ground control, they were the games that gave us our genre as we know it today. Warcraft and Starcraft are a pick and mix of the concepts these games brought forward. Warcraft and starcraft are just flashier versions of the same old game with a few extras to muddle it up.]

Not true.While they are successors to their previous version, they are unique games. Warcraft 2 and warcraft 3 are both their own games.


Finite resource system is a fundamental part of real time strategy genre, just like the unique games HomeWorld, cc1, total war and OTA are, IMHO

[Lolsquad_Steven]

From my understanding people here hate starcraft because they want to think they're better than starcraft players.

If that is all you got from my posts, Steven, you have a serious problem.

It's just a joke

[Neddie]

From my understanding people here hate starcraft because they want to think they're better than starcraft players.

If that is all you got from my posts, Steven, you have a serious problem.

It's just a joke

I haven't slept in a while, but honestly, I know it was a joke. Already took my venom out on Dragon. I can only fight one SmuG a day.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

If that is all you got from my posts, Steven, you have a serious problem.

It's just a joke

I haven't slept in a while, but honestly, I know it was a joke. Already took my venom out on Dragon. I can only fight one SmuG a day.

I'm sorry neddie

[Neddie]

It's just a joke

I haven't slept in a while, but honestly, I know it was a joke. Already took my venom out on Dragon. I can only fight one SmuG a day.

I'm sorry neddie

Eventually I'll get my stamina up, and I'll challenge Isaac to a 1v1 or two. Perk his spirits right up.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

I haven't slept in a while, but honestly, I know it was a joke. Already took my venom out on Dragon. I can only fight one SmuG a day.

I'm sorry neddie

Eventually I'll get my stamina up, and I'll challenge Isaac to a 1v1 or two. Perk his spirits right up.

Come on ta now and vs me :)

[Neddie]

Nah. Final in six hours!

[Lolsquad_Steven]

[Neddie]

Sorry, Steven. In TA, of course, the AI can give me a run for my money.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

[smoth]

I'm not trying to "change" anybodies mind about starcraft vs TA. I'm only trying to understand why this communitity hates SC so much. It seems to me that the majority of people here played a lot of money maps because there seems to be a lot of complaints about groups of 12.

if you're not playing on a money map, the MOST units you'll have to fight with is 50 (that's 4 groups), and that's with leaving no defense at home.

Well, money maps can be said for terran or 'toss but zerg kinda had the numbers game as their strategy. Honestly if that is people's only complain about starcraft then they are selling it short.

Either way, many times you went with small squads, that may be part of the reason for the hatred of starcraft(even though that is what AA did to TA IMO). Starcraft is a micro intensive game same as warcraft II is when you get into all the spell casting, it is not just a click fest, it is pound the fuck out of control+hotkey. That for many gamers is irritating, another problem with all starcraft and warcraft is that the AI ALWAYS targets the players. So computer stomp matches cannot be fun all on all crazyness like they can be in TA.

As far as being a computer science major etc, there are tons of programmers on this site. However, if you are going to make fork only to try and reproduce starcraft your project will fail. Namely because it will eventually be C&D'd by blizzard. However, if you are trying to look at creating something similar to starcraft, look hard at ta mods. Look at the spring projects that are running, see what has been done, maybe some of the ideas are neat and you can use them.


above all else before you up and create a branch, create a minimod with what spring already has in it. I am not questioning your e-resume but as a person who has been developing a gundam based rts, I know all of the pitfalls of having to stick to someone else's story and unit design. You should test this engine before deciding to fork. That also will give you time to wait it out for features.

However, creating a fork seems rather silly why not see about working within the spring framework offering up patches to the core engine. Spring is a great platform to have a project inside of and it gives you an already active and alive community. Also, by working withing the spring community you will have access to all of the maps and download-able content and an established community. Believe me, forking for me is not so unbelievable, I am a senior of computer science and I would rather stay in this community and help it grow.

[KDR_11k]

Heh, if you look at the first post this thread was supposed to be about implementing Starcraft features into Spring, not making a real Starcraft clone. Most of those features can be lua'd though carriers would get quite complicated.

[CautionToTheWind]

I just love it how starcraft stole all its good ideas from games that were yet to be made or imagined when starcraft came out. That just goes to show how pure evil Blizzard is.