Concerning global warming...

[AF]

Global warming is politics. Just look at David Cameron and his so called 'green credentials'

[pintle]

I'd rather not look at David Cameron.




ever

[Deathblane]

It would have been funny without the first paragraph

[Licho]

Licho, CO2 isnt the worst, in alla ctual fact it is one of the least effective, and the only reason it ha ssuch a stigma is that it takes so long to dissipate. Water vapour is far more effective than CO2 and in copious supplies.

Of course it's more effective, but concentration of water vapour is essentialy the same :) Calculated radiative forcing of water vapour added in last century is neglible.

If you look at past history, our climate has heated up past the magical tipping point fo no return on at least 2 occasions, and then stayed above that temperature, for 3000 years in the bronze age, aka the helocine maxima, and the medieval warm period when there where mediterranean style vineyards in Britain. The world didnt end, we're not in a venus climate, temperatures fell afterwards, remember the little ice age? When rivers like the thames froze over? Where the ice was so thick they had festivals and buildings on it in the winter?

Climate yes, but never GLOBAL climate. Little ice age also impacted just an Europe. However changes of global world temperature have huge impacts on all "climates" and ecosystems.

What about the huge lag in CO2 behind temperatures? Does that not suggest higher temperatures cause extra CO2 and not the other way around?

Well the lag is caused by other things, notable accumulation of heat in oceans.
If you start shining more on some object it takes some time to heat it. Changes dont happen instantly.
If you found references to some past records which suggest that warming happend first followed by CO2 change, well thats entirely plausible too. Ecosystem is generally stable, so concentrations of CO2 usually remains the same. But, if for some other than biological reason temperature rises, it can boost life (increasing CO2 levels) or stored ghg can melt from ground.
It seems that other process usually kicks warming in the end of global ice age, initial warming is followed by CO2 rise (after some 800 years) and CO2 positive feedback further increases temperature for next 5000 or so years.
For more info check for example this paper
http://icebubbles.ucsd.edu/Publications ... ermIII.pdf

What about statistics showing that CO2 production ramped up after 1940 for 30 years, despite a huge drop in temperatures over those 30 years and a global scare involving global cooling that is very similair to the current global warming scare? What about correlations between solar activity and temperatures on earth that show correct correlation with no 800 year time lags that match the temperatures correctly going back thousands of years?

Could you please link me to some articles regarding it (preferably peer reviewed in some journals so that it's not bloated by journalists).

You said you have area models, so you're in the global warmign business? You must have a vested interest in keeping global warming at the frontiers of science, what with all that research money. Gosh if global warming was considered unreliable, there'd be tens of thousands of people out of the job! But then again its not like tens of billions of dollars of research money worldwide is worth doing anything about right?

No I'm not in any warming or cooling business :) I'm just an ordinary citizen. Of course you have vested interested, but vested interests havemuch higher financial backing on the fossil fuels lobby than on green tree huggers side :)

And people, do not forget that the IPCC is a laughing stock. Not everyone on the IPCC is a scientist, and not everyone listed as being a part of the IPCC is there willingly. Some people have even taken legal action to have their names removed from this list of 2500 scientists.

Well but nay sayers don't even have anything close to this. I only hear isolated voices often telling each different story.

While I think reducing CO2 emmissions is a good idea, I do not think that all this global warming caused by human stuff is anything but alarmist apocalypse stories designed to scare people in order to profit in various ways, media wanting a new story, new products, researc money.

I wish it was so simple. Since last time runaway global warming happend, ecosystem collapsed for millions of years, oxygen levels dropped and most species died off. It was the biggest die off in history, far greater than the one later caused by asteroid smashing us.

Human caused Global warming is not a fact, it is a theory, and to date there has been no undisputed scientific proof that prooces otherwise (and even if there was, its still just a theory, just as we all know newtons stuff proved right but einstein had one over him).

You cannot have definitive proof for such complex processes. However facts and models all add up. There is no border level physics or other core science used in it. This theory is based solely on hard-rock facts and observations.

And may we all remember that computer/mathematical models ar no justification at all. We dont know enough to accurately produce them and it is possible to fiddle the values to give whatever result you want because nobody knows the correct values. And afterall, a model that prdicts things will be cloudy buy othewise the same in 50 years time, doesnt get published, and afterall nobodies going to remember it in 50 years time so it doesnt matter fi you get something wrong.

Thing is, weather predicting also works on models and it works extremely well.
Also models are first trained, they try to "predict" climate that happend in the past century for example, and model outputs are compared to reality.
There are very little unknowns in inputs for these models.

Remember the computer model that said we'd be in an ice age today? or the ones that said global warming would have raised sea levels and flooded most the world by 2005? Right now a drastic increase in solar activity is a more plausible explanation than a small increase in a green house gas.

Well you can easilly calculate extra energy we recieve from increased solar activity :) It's neglible compared to extra scattering caused by increased CO2 concentration.

[PicassoCT]

...I just laugh when some kid...

That is a stupid thing to say considering that I'm probably older than you are, meh I digress.

So forty years from now, when the planet hasn't turned into hell on earth you'll sit there and realize, wow, I'm dumb!



You people fail at humor.

New Orleans didn`t happen.. its all Fake and the Aliens are responsible for it

By the Way to make it a little more Don`t Panic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKQEue9YMk

And to give those who take the old "freedom of Speech and liberty to do anything i want" broad sword into battle. There is a limitation, in everything even in that - you are not allowed to hurt another person(that also counts "sinking his home island by driving 60years a oversized & thirsty humvee") , or limit his freedom of speech. And "having not known" things i not counted before court

But we will have Mars to ruin by the Time

[Decimator]

New Orleans was an example of people trying to be like the Dutch and failing miserably.

[tombom]

The problem is, foreboding, that your first paragraph strips out any humour elsewhere as inhabitants of every other nation on earth smack their head and shout 'doh' in unison.

And when you start going on about it I look at the screen, shake my head and mutter "god, what an idiot".

Not everyone shares your view, but that's the wonderful thing about being free, you may have your view and I can have mine, deal with it.

So you show a stupid "joke" that was a silly slip-up on a local news program by flamebaiting? When you're called out on it, you go "OH JEEZ WHY ARE YOU TAKING IT SO SERIOUSLY".

Forboding Angel, you seem to constantly have a problem with how other people post when the problem is really with the way you express yourself. It comes over incredibly rude most of the time.

[Tim-the-maniac]

You people fail at humor.

Yeah its our fault you're not funny..

[Forboding Angel]

Rampant socialism on the spring boards? More likely than you think...


You guys get so bent out of shape over nothing. Tombom, why exactly are you taking it so seriously? I'm not seeing the point in that.

It was a faux pau, do you guys even know what that means? It is basically a slip up. God, it's painfully obvious that it was a slip up, but it just happened to be particularly humorous.

It's the same thing as when Ted Kennedy referred to barak obama as Osama Bin Laden (it was just a brain fart, he stuttered around for a little bit and finally got the names right, but it was still made of awesome). That was hilarious
http://youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos < obama slip up


BTW, why are you guys perceiving me as being upset? I have been having a good bit of lolz at this whole thread.

[PicassoCT]

Rampant socialism on the spring boards? More likely than you think...


You guys get so bent out of shape over nothing. Tombom, why exactly are you taking it so seriously? I'm not seeing the point in that.

It was a faux pau, do you guys even know what that means? It is basically a slip up. God, it's painfully obvious that it was a slip up, but it just happened to be particularly humorous.

It's the same thing as when Ted Kennedy referred to barak obama as Osama Bin Laden (it was just a brain fart, he stuttered around for a little bit and finally got the names right, but it was still made of awesome). That was hilarious
http://youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos < obama slip up


BTW, why are you guys perceiving me as being upset? I have been having a good bit of lolz at this whole thread.

Funny :)

But no Accident - after all this is Fox, the Republican Partys Privat Broadcast -

[tombom]

Rampant socialism on the spring boards? More likely than you think...

I love how you say socialism like it's morally wrong.

You guys get so bent out of shape over nothing. Tombom, why exactly are you taking it so seriously? I'm not seeing the point in that.

Honestly, I'm not taking it that seriously. You started a thread about a somewhat dull faux pas as you say and started it by saying "People who believe in global warming are idiots". As soon as people mentioned it, you complained about how they missed the thread's point, a thread titled "Concerning global warming...". It's just somewhat silly.

BTW, why are you guys perceiving me as being upset? I have been having a good bit of lolz at this whole thread.

Not really upset, just acting a little silly.

[Forboding Angel]

Not really upset, just acting a little silly.

that was the whole point

[Lindir The Green]

Rampant socialism on the spring boards? More likely than you think...

I love how you say socialism like it's morally wrong.

Of course it is! Cos it's one step away from communism.

Damn commies.

[tombom]

Not really upset, just acting a little silly.

that was the whole point

what do you mean

[Forboding Angel]

to get a chuckle...

I said it 40 posts ago. If people would bother to... Nevermind, fuckit.

[imbaczek]

You've just admitted that you were trolling.

Congratulations, not many trolls do that

[Journier]

You've just admitted that you were trolling.

Congratulations, not many trolls do that

lol... its amusing seeing a guy trolling a thread say the guy that made the thread is a troll... odd.

[FLOZi]

Global warming is politics. Just look at David Cameron and his so called 'green credentials'

What an incredibly backwards view

David Cameron's 'green credentials' are there purely to win votes - because people ARE concerned over global warming, and rightly so. That doesn't mean that human responsibility for it is nothing but politics. Hell, quite the opposite, particularly the US, australian and chineese administrations want to hear nothing about it.

(also, if the 'Human caused Global warming is not a fact, it is a theory' was aimed at me, reread my post :) )

Forb: Unlike the US, most countries (particularly european) have embraced some aspects of socialist thought into mainstream politics, in the form of social democrats (something which the US democrat party is NOT) so please don't act too surprised that many people actually care about others.

[Decimator]

Yep, they care so much that they're willing to take people's money and give it to other people. "I care so much about you that I robbed this bank to pay for your health care!"

[rattle]

Those damned aussies fart so much that the poles melt...