Upspring 1.54

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 16 Jan 2007, 10:48

Ok, I've done a number of tests, and I've got a fairly big thing that's annoying me.

JC, can you please not have UpSpring do any welding? It's destroying smoothing groups, demolishing split vertices, and is generally causing havoc with models that are making use of smoothing, because it is forcing all verts to be welded when they are imported

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 16 Jan 2007, 11:27

Aha. Now I see why it was taking me so long to fully see this problem. Here's major issue no. 2:

When exporting models to the OBJ format (the only format that exports reliably- 3DS usually produces junk and the other formats are too obscure for most programs to manipulate) UpSpring is stripping all vertex normal data. I only caught this going on because I exported a model, put it back into UVMapper Pro, and told it to turn on Smoothing and Lighting (it uses OpenGL) and ... it replied "This object has no vertex normal data. Would you like to create it?" That's not exactly what I was hoping to see, lol...

Methinks it's doing this on import, and then applying welding to every vert.

This is what's ruining the models

UpSpring should be welding-neutral... if users are too dumb to use welding on their objects, then that's tough- they should see boxy structures with sharp lines. Those of us who know how to set up smoothing groups and other groovy tricks should not be penalized because a few newbie modelers don't know what to do yet

Post by **jcnossen** » 16 Jan 2007, 12:51

OBJ has way too much freedom in geometry specification. I have to throw everything together and then optimize it, otherwise you get a very inefficient mesh (Where every triangle has 3 unique vertices). The better solution is probably installing lib3ds and improving 3ds support.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 16 Jan 2007, 15:34

Wait... so you break up your smoothing in Spring by literally disconnecting the surfaces that touch the non-smoothed-edge? That is, you use two coincident edges/vertex pairs instead of a single shared edge/vertex pair?

That sounds wasteful.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 16 Jan 2007, 18:29

When I'm working on a model, the last step in the workflow is to import into UpSpring from 3DS. Not OBJ. But I'm using OBJ a lot of the time because most uvmapping software is a lot happier with it than with 3DS. And it's the only format that exports properly. So please don't get sidetracked- I don't import as OBJ. Not that I think taking away that option would be good, mind you, because a lot of people probably still do.

As for breaking up smoothing by splitting the surface... er... yeah... that's how it's done. Of course, everything that isn't split is welded, so it's not a bad thing- mildly inefficient, but welding 100% of the model is what makes it look so terrible in the first place- this is a direct tradeoff between professional quality and speed. There is no magic workaround.

People using "smoothing groups" in Max or Maya are doing exactly the same things. And it's only massively inefficient if you split every single flat surface from every non-coplanar surface, like I did with the original Lord model.

I don't want UpSpring to allow people to do this kind of stuff in it... I just want it to leave my optimized, blemish-free models alone. I have several pieces that were beautiful before I put them into UpSpring and I'm pretty grumpy about it

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:07

Not to, er, be a pain or anything, but any new news on this? I have a lot of content waiting for the welding issue to get addressed.

Post by **jcnossen** » 27 Jan 2007, 14:51

I'm busy this week, but I'll take a look at it after that.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 27 Jan 2007, 20:40

Np, totally understand.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jan 2007, 21:01

3ds fails hard as exporting to it breaks all welds along your seams. Even when you export from 3ds max. There is nothing any of us can do about it either, that is a part of the 3ds format.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 16 Feb 2007, 20:46

I'm having a huge problem importing uv co-ordinates.

Basically, 95% of the time Upspring refuses to load UV maps. Even if I export the model for uv-mapping, change it just a bit, and reload it, nothing. I've been trying for the past 2 days to load uv co-ordinates into my s3o model from both .OBJ and .3DS and it won't work. And it's not like I don't know HOW. It does work sometimes and I've made dozens of units with proper maps. Just sometimes it's like Upspring gets into a pissy mood and refuses logic.

EDIT: Yeah this is really pissing me off, because it simply will not work, no matter what I do. It's basically fucking me over completely at this point as I can't do anything until I get this uv loaded.

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 16 Feb 2007, 21:19

Yeah 1.43 is phail @ uvmapping...Just use 1.3 for that.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 17 Feb 2007, 00:04

I've tried with 1.3. Same issue.

I believe it's happening because I've already gotten a model, mapped it, loaded the co-ordinates, then saved. Then exported model for uv-mapping, then tried to load another set of co-ordinates. Then it doesn't work.

Can someone look into this? It involves:

1 - Load up a brand new object. Export model for uv mapping.
2 - UV map the model in whatever way, then import co-ordinates.
3 - Save. Then export model for uv mapping AGAIN.
4 - Change the uv mapping, and then import the co-ordinates (which are now different).
5 - Check if it's loaded properly (by either looking at the model or go to "Show UV Mapping").

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 18 Feb 2007, 11:17

I noticed something highly annoying. Rotate a piece around any axis, doesn't matter which, by -120├é┬░. -119├é┬░ are fine but it goes crazy when it's below -120├é┬░ for some reason.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 22 Feb 2007, 23:13

Alright, this is annoying, I uv'ed, mapped, and textured it in wings, I exported to 3ds (I don't hardly use hard surfaces, etc) and then uploaded in UpSpring, and very oddly, the only thing thats messed up are the burnt up decals on the missile launchers and the exhaust pipes.. I think the missile launchers are messed up because I had to mirror them after I textured them, but there is no reason for upspring to mess with my exhaust pipes!!!

edit: I fixed the problem, but it took the 30 mins I had before baseball practice, but it took time I could have spent doing something more important...

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 23 Feb 2007, 01:47

It's not so much how they look in UpSpring (unless you turn Lighting on) it's how they look in Spring itself... the default view in UpSpring doesn't include lighting...

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 23 Feb 2007, 01:58

Well, I hope nothing is wrong in Spring then, I already did the team coloring a day ago

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 23 Feb 2007, 05:31

Any word on the importing uv co-ordinates problem? It's really basically stopping me from being able to do anything.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 23 Feb 2007, 07:59

version 1.3 - no need to insult, mod -....

DO YOU USE IT??

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:23

I've tried with 1.3. Same issue.

no need to insult, mod

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:28

Was that really necessary, you two?

I just hope that JC is kind enough to fix these smallish things, before he fades out to whatever he's doing again. It'd make my last big project for Spring a much nicer game.

Spring RTS Engine

Upspring 1.54

Aargh