Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 19 Sep 2006, 01:13

j5mello wrote:
EXit_W0und wrote:Well perhaps emp + damage would be a better alternative if possible

The rest of this boils down to making defense cheaper and easier than offense which doesn't seem like such a sound idea. Having mines (except the nuke) kill outright would make me less likely to risk my units in an attack. you would instead see more siege gameplay with mass use of arty and LRPCs to crush your foe.

Perhaps the best way to make mines (at least the light ones) useful is to go for a differnet balance: low initial investment, high maintenance. That is, expensive (e-wise) to cloak, but dirt-cheap to build. Thus, a player won't want to invest a large proportion of his energy economy into them.

Of course, that depends on your goals. If you want mines to be cheap and quickly dispersed defenses, you could go for that. However, if you want mines to be used as a late-game mainstream defense, you'd probably want to stick to normal pay-up-front pricing.

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 19 Sep 2006, 01:14

Im not sure if this has been fixed, but when I build air repair pad things, they started jumping and moving all over the place... I can submit the replay if you want.

Decoil · Post by **Decoil** » 19 Sep 2006, 01:32

Thats pretty substancial...

btw, nanotowers should be able to build a larger nanotower with the buildassist of a commander, then that larger one that is built should be able to build a Single nanotower the size of a Krogoth that can build a vulcan in 5 seconds Razz

Farks, and freakers will always be the better alternative to nanotowers, but as cheap as they will be in 2.2, having a nanoblock will be easy to build and to restore if destroyed.

IMO, if nanotowers had an even stronger buildrate, were even more fragile, and cost a hair more than they do in 2.11, it would be more benefitial in normal(non-speedmetal) games.

Reason I say this, its less nanospray, less particles and less stuff on the screen slowing thigns down.(yes they do Razz )

You can only build as fast as you can produce the resources anyway, so its a boost when you have the metal, and a big drain when you don't.

Not much harm in upping the buildrate a small bit higher.

As much as this seems like the solution, I really think that nanos are how they should be. If anything needs to be added to them for balance, it cant be a boost or loss in build power.

the only thing I could come up with is the ability to produce themselves.

Also, what the game seems to be missing is a powerful constructor unit at least to cut down on lag. The mother of all farks or the monster engineer. Something huge, but not lag producing.

EXit_W0und · Post by **EXit_W0und** » 19 Sep 2006, 01:45

j5mello wrote:

The rest of this boils down to making defense cheaper and easier than offense which doesn't seem like such a sound idea. Having mines (except the nuke) kill outright would make me less likely to risk my units in an attack. you would instead see more siege gameplay with mass use of arty and LRPCs to crush your foe.

Iirc defence has always been cheaper than offence, mobile units will still be the superior defence. All this is about is making a previously useless unit useful again. It opens up new ways of playing that don't only involve porcing - and i'd suggest porcing with mines alone a bad idea. It's easy to send a stream of cheap fleas to take out the mines before your real army goes in. So i don't think mines will have the effect of making everything seige warfare.
You can use mines on enemy terretory as a cheap way of preventing them expanding. You can scare them into thinking theres a huge field of them just by placing afew in the right place so they avoid that area. Use your imagination there are plenty of new play styles that can be used here not just purely defence.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 19 Sep 2006, 03:45

^besides, you can stil use mineclearer missiles anwyays.

I suddenly think mines should be realy cheap, and realy spammable, and realy powerfull too, this will be offset by how a few fleas could decimate a minefeild.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 19 Sep 2006, 03:45

Also, what the game seems to be missing is a powerful constructor unit at least to cut down on lag. The mother of all farks or the monster engineer. Something huge, but not lag producing.

I entirely disagree
sorry everyone but it had to be said.
There are a million noobvarients of AA, almost as many as there are lolnoobs and starnoobs in the community atm

we REALLY need a place where this stuff can be discussed seriously, would you consider using smoths forums for this if he'd let you Caydr? im sure i've got the link somewhere...

e: wow this hasn't been edited yet ^_^ maybe if another page is written this will be not looked at and remain tribute to that fools idiocy :D :D :D

mods edit: Be nice to the new guys.

e: this post looks lame now :< damn you moderators!!! (;)) *shakes fist*

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 19 Sep 2006, 04:01

lol at min3mat. I want to say that in my bomber thread, but I self moderated

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 19 Sep 2006, 04:56

What, did somebody watch the replay where I mined all of Pass V2's actual pass? Did it honestly take that long to bring up the issues with effectiveness of mines?

There are a few things you could do to balance Mines and the Minesweeper... but I would only do one or two of those listed, not multiple.

1. Increase Nanolathe Range.
2. Decrease Mine Build Costs.
3. Decrease Mine Upkeep Costs.
4. Don't Let Mines Chain Explode If Too Near Together.
5. Increase Mine Damage.
6. Increase Mine Impulse Factor.

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 19 Sep 2006, 05:12

Just noticed, the Sumo's walk script should be increased so that the legs move faster. Caydr, I think you kept an old script while boosting the speed, making it look like the units "glides" forward like ice skating instead of walking.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 19 Sep 2006, 07:52

How about giving the minelayer a jeffy-powered lazer and a faster mine laying ability.

I could see myself using them as rushing units, and if I cant find a hole in the defence to rush through, place mines on their early expansion mex spots.

Or even to forgo the lazer and just reduce their build time and energy cost so they can be used alongside weasels and jeffies

EXit_W0und · Post by **EXit_W0und** » 19 Sep 2006, 11:43

neddiedrow wrote:

There are a few things you could do to balance Mines and the Minesweeper... but I would only do one or two of those listed, not multiple.

1. Increase Nanolathe Range.
2. Decrease Mine Build Costs.
3. Decrease Mine Upkeep Costs.
4. Don't Let Mines Chain Explode If Too Near Together.
5. Increase Mine Damage.
6. Increase Mine Impulse Factor.

If I were to narrow it down i'd say 1 & 2 are essential, the amount of energy minelayers use building is too high, smaller mines should also take far less time to build (1 sec).

Then it would be a toss up between higher damage or lower upkeep - probably go with the upkeep costs being reduced.

Those are the essential things, impulse factor is really just a nice to have.

Lolsquad_Steven · Post by **Lolsquad_Steven** » 19 Sep 2006, 12:51

Lolsquad_Steven · Post by **Lolsquad_Steven** » 19 Sep 2006, 12:53

I mean, do any mines paralize?

Day · Post by **Day** » 19 Sep 2006, 14:04

not that i know

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 19 Sep 2006, 14:09

Min3mat wrote:
Also, what the game seems to be missing is a powerful constructor unit at least to cut down on lag. The mother of all farks or the monster engineer. Something huge, but not lag producing.
I entirely disagree
sorry everyone but it had to be said.
There are a million noobvarients of AA, almost as many as there are lolnoobs and starnoobs in the community atm

we REALLY need a place where this stuff can be discussed seriously, would you consider using smoths forums for this if he'd let you Caydr? im sure i've got the link somewhere...

ahh matthew.. always the charmer ^^

mods edit: Don't make more work for me.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Sep 2006, 16:00

Cadyr, relase the version alredy. I can't STAND the OP instis anymore >.<

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 19 Sep 2006, 16:31

neddiedrow wrote:What, did somebody watch the replay where I mined all of Pass V2's actual pass? Did it honestly take that long to bring up the issues with effectiveness of mines?

There are a few things you could do to balance Mines and the Minesweeper... but I would only do one or two of those listed, not multiple.

1. Increase Nanolathe Range.
2. Decrease Mine Build Costs.
3. Decrease Mine Upkeep Costs.
4. Don't Let Mines Chain Explode If Too Near Together.
5. Increase Mine Damage.
6. Increase Mine Impulse Factor.

Aye. nr1 is important. being able to go a wee bit outside your defence and put up some mines.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 20 Sep 2006, 01:06

Comp1337 wrote: Aye. nr1 is important. being able to go a wee bit outside your defence and put up some mines.

Doesn't do any good when a the mine-under-construction is spotted and a rain of plasma takes out the mine and everything around it. Imho, the better way to do mines would be with a spell system - there have been numerous requests in the request forum for stuff like that. You'd need a few new features, but here's how I'd do it:
1) add support for multiple buildable weapons
2) add support for weapons that can be fired only by clicking a button on the build list (hence, spells - they look like building actions) - this works well with 1 so you can have a list of "build" commands and a list of "fire" commands for your spells if you don't want a spell to be "instant" like a D-gun.
3) add support for weapons that spawn a friendly unit on impact.

Then you could have minelayers build-and-deploy a mine. This would also be nice for long-ranged unit launchers like Warhammer-style deep strikes, and Metal-Fatigue-style recon-poles.

Of course, now I'm just daydreaming.

MrSpontaneous · Post by **MrSpontaneous** » 20 Sep 2006, 01:38

+1 to unit spawning weapons

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 20 Sep 2006, 03:56

wow we went from editing fbi/tdf values to rewriting the code...

anyway... well to address teh plasma rain issue give the minelayers a jamming radius large enough to allow them to hide the radar sigs of the mine wireframes. combine that with faser build speed should allow it to be easier setup mines undetected.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11