As we see, we cannot anymore download maps from the loby client. I suggest that the lobby client to have a section for sharing maps in torrent mode. Ofcorse, this needs a server and bandwith to manage all the torrents and al the requests, but this integrates map downloading in the lobby client.
I suppose we can set up an upload speed (and a minimum upload speed - a 1k upload minimum speed sounds ok). Of corse, ingame time, the server computer dont share anything for saving bandwith.
I think this ideea has advantages:
- low bandwith usage for servers
- map downloading integrated in lobby client
- this will make spring comunity more indepent
Well?
It is possile lobby client to become a torrent client???
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Foxomaniac
- Posts: 691
- Joined: 18 Jan 2006, 16:59
look at it this way:
Person A:
this person wants fast map downlaods. He goes to UF and downloads from a big server, making use of the vast pool of wasted bandwidth iamacup pays for that never gets used. He downloads from a very fast server, with a large amount of through put. He is very happy with this. He can downlaod it how he wants when he wants, and his own connection is the bottleneck.
Person B:
This person insists on downloading from other people in the lobby via bit torrent. He gets poor download speeds and is vulnerable to Denial of service attacks via corrupted files. Most users in the lobby turn seeding off for fear it reduces their own download rates, saps their overall bandwidth they want for other uses, or generally makes the lobby very laggy. This person as a result ends up downloading slowly. *clunk*. The last person with sharing enabled that has the map has timed out! Person B is stuck with an incomplete file and nobody wants to enable sharing. Person B goes to UF and does what person A did and finds the whole experience much nicer.
Bit torrent isnt the saving grace you all make it out to be, it has its own problems and your all naive if you think other suers will accept the lobby forcing them to seed maps and mods, and your even more naive to think a dev would do that, or that users would keep it turned on if they had a choice, or that they wouldnt be very annoyed if they found it turned on by default without telling them, or if the lobby downloaded something without them knowing.
If you want this you already have it, just launch azureus with iamacups all maps torrent. If you need other lobby users to seed tell them to seed the torrent.
But for all intensive purposes Unknown files will give you much faster and reliable results. We dont have bandwidth problems, UF wastes hundreds of gigabytes in unused bandwidth every month.
I as a lobby dev dont agree with this (tho I wont rule out p2p file transfers, not p2p sharing though, and primarily for sending small files such as test maps or mod variants or AI config, ro prepath caches).
Somehow I think betalord wont do this be it either for general lack of interest, the workload needed combiend with the result from it, and the lure of other more promisign features.
As for hollowsoul, he's busy restructuring unity lobby as it is.
Person A:
this person wants fast map downlaods. He goes to UF and downloads from a big server, making use of the vast pool of wasted bandwidth iamacup pays for that never gets used. He downloads from a very fast server, with a large amount of through put. He is very happy with this. He can downlaod it how he wants when he wants, and his own connection is the bottleneck.
Person B:
This person insists on downloading from other people in the lobby via bit torrent. He gets poor download speeds and is vulnerable to Denial of service attacks via corrupted files. Most users in the lobby turn seeding off for fear it reduces their own download rates, saps their overall bandwidth they want for other uses, or generally makes the lobby very laggy. This person as a result ends up downloading slowly. *clunk*. The last person with sharing enabled that has the map has timed out! Person B is stuck with an incomplete file and nobody wants to enable sharing. Person B goes to UF and does what person A did and finds the whole experience much nicer.
Bit torrent isnt the saving grace you all make it out to be, it has its own problems and your all naive if you think other suers will accept the lobby forcing them to seed maps and mods, and your even more naive to think a dev would do that, or that users would keep it turned on if they had a choice, or that they wouldnt be very annoyed if they found it turned on by default without telling them, or if the lobby downloaded something without them knowing.
If you want this you already have it, just launch azureus with iamacups all maps torrent. If you need other lobby users to seed tell them to seed the torrent.
But for all intensive purposes Unknown files will give you much faster and reliable results. We dont have bandwidth problems, UF wastes hundreds of gigabytes in unused bandwidth every month.
I as a lobby dev dont agree with this (tho I wont rule out p2p file transfers, not p2p sharing though, and primarily for sending small files such as test maps or mod variants or AI config, ro prepath caches).
Somehow I think betalord wont do this be it either for general lack of interest, the workload needed combiend with the result from it, and the lure of other more promisign features.
As for hollowsoul, he's busy restructuring unity lobby as it is.
What can I say? After you shout this way I suppose I'll just give up.
Is true, the Unknown files is simpler and reliable, but is not a professional solution. As for the problems occuring because of few seeders I think they are not insolvable.
But, as I sayd, I'll shut up unless someone else don't support this ideea.
At the very least players in a room who have the file should automatically be seeding it just for other players within the room. That would be optimal if most of the players in the room have the file and only a handful don't - instead of hitting UF, the fileless guys could just join the swarm and get it from everybody in the game.
I still think that a full group-wide torrent is an optimal solution. Why? Because it also would allow other players to set up "donating" machines, in addition to other players. Set up the client to fetch an MOTD from each (or one stored on the tracker on behalf of each peer) in addition to the data, then dump the MOTDs on connect to each client.
"Fetching XantheTerra, brought to you by...
[unknown-files.com] your TA files solution
[138.32.58.4] Smoth - Go play Gundam!
[63.22.58.2] I rape kittens
and so on. Then you have a "small" incentive to be good - other players know about it and you get to advertise at them.
Plus, it's still a torrent: if you are downloading from a torrent, you're sharing it with other players while you do. Swarming is powerful. I'd go a step further - if you're in a game room and not playing (not just the lobby) sharing is on.
Remember, just because you use a P2P solution doesn't mean that every peer has to be just another player. You can have dedicated peer-hosts contributing to the system. Make a nice servlet or something that people can install on their server as a Spring mapserver. That way things like unknown-files don't have to bear the weight on their own.
I still think that a full group-wide torrent is an optimal solution. Why? Because it also would allow other players to set up "donating" machines, in addition to other players. Set up the client to fetch an MOTD from each (or one stored on the tracker on behalf of each peer) in addition to the data, then dump the MOTDs on connect to each client.
"Fetching XantheTerra, brought to you by...
[unknown-files.com] your TA files solution
[138.32.58.4] Smoth - Go play Gundam!
[63.22.58.2] I rape kittens
and so on. Then you have a "small" incentive to be good - other players know about it and you get to advertise at them.
Plus, it's still a torrent: if you are downloading from a torrent, you're sharing it with other players while you do. Swarming is powerful. I'd go a step further - if you're in a game room and not playing (not just the lobby) sharing is on.
Remember, just because you use a P2P solution doesn't mean that every peer has to be just another player. You can have dedicated peer-hosts contributing to the system. Make a nice servlet or something that people can install on their server as a Spring mapserver. That way things like unknown-files don't have to bear the weight on their own.
Heck, UF could be one of the peers! I'm way in favor of this as a feature. Unfortunately, it won't happen until someone sits down and codes it, and there are much more important things to do first (cross-platform compatible client, fixing sync errors, etc). I think this is a great idea for a year from now, unless someone has a hankering to code it up right now.