Had i been more lucid at the time, i would have not posted.

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 24 Oct 2006, 21:41

While googling for images with "tux win", i ended up finding this page (imagine that):
http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarticle. ... 3330%2F248
Which talks about one of the games from here:
http://www.leftbehindgames.com/

Mega-church minister linked to paramilitary video game (Updated)

Imagine: you are a foot soldier in a paramilitary group whose purpose is to remake America as a Christian theocracy, and establish its worldly vision of the dominion of Christ over all aspects of life. You are issued high-tech military weaponry, and instructed to engage the infidel on the streets of New York City. You are on a mission - both a religious mission and a military mission -- to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state - especially moderate, mainstream Christians. Your mission is "to conduct physical and spiritual warfare"; all who resist must be taken out with extreme prejudice. You have never felt so powerful, so driven by a purpose: you are 13 years old. You are playing a real-time strategy video game whose creators are linked to the empire of mega-church pastor Rick Warren, best selling author of The Purpose Driven Life.
...
This game immerses children in present-day New York City -- 500 square blocks, stretching from Wall Street to Chinatown, Greenwich Village, the United Nations headquarters, and Harlem. The game rewards children for how effectively they role play the killing of those who resist becoming a born again Christian. The game also offers players the opportunity to switch sides and fight for the army of the AntiChrist, releasing cloven-hoofed demons who feast on conservative Christians and their panicked proselytes (who taste a lot like Christian).
...
...

Left Behind Games seems to have a page dedicated to this controversy, named controversy:
http://www.leftbehindgames.com/pages/controversy.htm

I haven't read it all (well, the controversy one i ded), haven't tried the demo, don't want to and .. don't even know what to think about it...

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 24 Oct 2006, 22:31

Weird...

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 25 Oct 2006, 00:09

i wouldn`t say such thing Snipa. Not because it is not true, but you never can trust anybody on that subject. Maybee one of your Forum Members is already on the Fanatics side ... and believe me they can turn really "unfriendly" if "Unbelievers" don`t remain silent. In this case i prefer the freedom of breathing on, more than the freedom of speach...

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 25 Oct 2006, 00:19

I've played more religious titles.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 25 Oct 2006, 00:21

Like Bibleman?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 25 Oct 2006, 00:25

Bible Heroes, if I recall.

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 25 Oct 2006, 00:48

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 25 Oct 2006, 00:48

PicassoCT wrote:i wouldn`t say such thing Snipa. Not because it is not true, but you never can trust anybody on that subject. Maybee one of your Forum Members is already on the Fanatics side ... and believe me they can turn really "unfriendly" if "Unbelievers" don`t remain silent. In this case i prefer the freedom of breathing on, more than the freedom of speach...

Oh mi gosh, someone is gunna kill me for believing in God.. Noooo!

Pfff.. I'd like someone to try..

diggz2k · Post by **diggz2k** » 25 Oct 2006, 06:50

/me trys to kill snipawolf

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 25 Oct 2006, 07:01

The left behind series has been a popular work of Christian fiction for a while. We're allowed to publish games in virtually every other genere, many offensive to Christian theology if they were to state that they were fact. Why isn't Christian fiction any less appropriate then any other fiction? Anyone who would condemn this game based on it's content is a hypocrite. This is no less appropriate then any of the millions of other violent titles out there.

[edit] it's apparently not even very violent, which is reasonable since the left behind series of novels isn't really that extremist and I doubt it's main market would take much interest if it was overly violent.

[edit2] Paulo, the second site you linked quotes Jack Tompson as a reference, FOR SHAME!

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 25 Oct 2006, 09:16

I can't tell if that's supposed to be a joke or not. It certainly makes its makers look like a bunch of Nazis. Real Nazis, not the "OMG you Nazi!" variety. Usually christian games try to make the faith look good, not like a bunch of fascists.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 25 Oct 2006, 09:26

Go look at the left behind website.

I have personally read all the books (great fiction btw, even if you don't believe in christianity per se).

Whoever wrote that article is an idiot. The game is basically end times (read apocalyptic times) and follows the storyline of the books to a degree.

As I said whoever wrote that article is a hardcore biased, rabid, athiest. Such people are to be taken with a grain of salt. Same for extreme forms of religion (amish comes to mind). If you do not necessarily agree with them just take it with a grain of salt.

THe grain of salt rule does not apply to religions that promote strapping 50 pounds of c4 to your back and heading for the local shopping mall. Those people are just idiots.

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 25 Oct 2006, 10:25

SwiftSpear wrote:The left behind series has been a popular work of Christian fiction for a while. We're allowed to publish games in virtually every other genere, many offensive to Christian theology if they were to state that they were fact. Why isn't Christian fiction any less appropriate then any other fiction? Anyone who would condemn this game based on it's content is a hypocrite. This is no less appropriate then any of the millions of other violent titles out there.

[edit] it's apparently not even very violent, which is reasonable since the left behind series of novels isn't really that extremist and I doubt it's main market would take much interest if it was overly violent.

[edit2] Paulo, the second site you linked quotes Jack Tompson as a reference, FOR SHAME!

The Problem Swiftspear starts with people believing what they play. That is the difference - i may slaugther Stroggs in Quake, but i will not meat them in RL. And i would not beat them there.

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 25 Oct 2006, 11:24

I'd prefer postal over that, even with it's borked controls...
But let's not discuss religions, it's and endless deep hole.

(Yes I'm an atheist!)

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 25 Oct 2006, 13:15

SwiftSpear wrote:...
[edit2] Paulo, the second site you linked quotes Jack Tompson as a reference, FOR SHAME!

As i said, i've read the whole "controversy" page in the game's site.

Also, SwiftSpear, point me to games that are "offensive to Christian theology"... (directly, i mean, not just, for example, having violence which might go against some "Christian theology")

I see some reactions to which i would ask ├é┬½would you still feel the same if it was muslins vs others instead of cristians vs others?├é┬╗

Anyway, as i said, i don't have much of a opinion yet about it. I merely found that, gave it a look, and posted it here. I don't know for sure, yet (don't know if i ever will know), if that game is religious zealotry or not. I downloaded the video and it wasn't very defining.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 25 Oct 2006, 13:16

The Problem Swiftspear starts with people believing what they play. That is the difference - i may slaugther Stroggs in Quake, but i will not meat them in RL. And i would not beat them there

Ohh.. So it's okay to kill things in a video game but not in real life? Of course it is. Its not real, virtual. It doesn't exist. You kill Soviets in Freedom Fighters. You kill Combine and all sorts of stuff in Half Life 2..

Most games have a reason..

I don't believe what I play..

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 25 Oct 2006, 19:20

Forboding Angel wrote:Go look at the left behind website.

I have personally read all the books (great fiction btw, even if you don't believe in christianity per se).

Whoever wrote that article is an idiot. The game is basically end times (read apocalyptic times) and follows the storyline of the books to a degree.

As I said whoever wrote that article is a hardcore biased, rabid, athiest. Such people are to be taken with a grain of salt. Same for extreme forms of religion (amish comes to mind). If you do not necessarily agree with them just take it with a grain of salt.

THe grain of salt rule does not apply to religions that promote strapping 50 pounds of c4 to your back and heading for the local shopping mall. Those people are just idiots.

Many of us see Rick Warren and his ilk as an extreme form of religion, promoting dominionist theology in the United States, and thus will take anything on a website connected to him with a grain of salt. Hence, you're telling me to basically distrust both websites.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 25 Oct 2006, 20:51

Even if other games are offensive to these people that doesn't give them the right to make a game like this, just as all the US-centric WW2 games don't give Nazi's the right to make KZ manager sims.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 26 Oct 2006, 00:11

PauloMorfeo wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:...
[edit2] Paulo, the second site you linked quotes Jack Tompson as a reference, FOR SHAME!
As i said, i've read the whole "controversy" page in the game's site.

Also, SwiftSpear, point me to games that are "offensive to Christian theology"... (directly, i mean, not just, for example, having violence which might go against some "Christian theology")

I see some reactions to which i would ask ├é┬½would you still feel the same if it was muslins vs others instead of cristians vs others?├é┬╗

Anyway, as i said, i don't have much of a opinion yet about it. I merely found that, gave it a look, and posted it here. I don't know for sure, yet (don't know if i ever will know), if that game is religious zealotry or not. I downloaded the video and it wasn't very defining.

Doom, Diablo are big ones, as well as really any game that promotes use of excessive violence. Most horror series that feature ghosts, final fantasy basicly promotes something that is a totally new religion. I have no problem with these games because I understand that they are CLEARLY fiction, and there is no one coming up and saying they aren't supposed to be fiction. The left behind series is a post apocalyptic world, it puts you in a universe that most Christians believe will never really be possible. It assumes that the rapture has occurred (every devoted Christian on earth has been taken into heaven) hence the quotes "millions have disappeared", and the forces of hell start acending onto earth attempting to take their rightful place of leadership, possessing and destroying where they see fit. How can I state this any clearer, THIS STORY IS CLEARLY FICTION! The majority of Christians don't believe in the rapture, AFAIK the books author himself doesn't, he just used it because he thought it made an interesting fictional universe.

It's a complete and total double standard I am looking at here as far as I'm concerned. I'm basically seeing fanatic atheists tell me that it's fine, if not good, to make a game stating that all life is an entity in the life stream and the greatest goal is to seek to become one with the earth (ANY final fantasy game), but it's not ok to make a game based on Christian fiction, JUST because we're dealing with different religious assumptions. Lets keep this entirely a-religious, is there actually a good reason why one fictional setting is any less appropriate for a game then another? If a game is inappropriate shouldn't that be based on it's contents, not it origins?

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 26 Oct 2006, 00:35

I have no personal problem with the Left Behind games/books and I'm a real hardcore atheist. Why? Cause its a book. Or a game. And books and games have NEVER hurt anyone, no matter what Mr. Thompson says. Its how you act on said books and games that hurts OR benefits people. Lots of people forget, too many in my opinion (even me, for that matter) forget the fact that religion has benefited more people than its hurt. Or at least...it should have. I need to check me facts for a second...

Spring RTS Engine

Had i been more lucid at the time, i would have not posted.

Had i been more lucid at the time, i would have not posted.