Requiring totala1.hpi

[Caydr]

Every TA CD will have totala1.hpi, and all of them will have an identical CRC since they're all from a master copy, AFAIK. So I was thinking, since Spring's legality is questionable to say the least, perhaps there could be some sort of integrated check for totala1.hpi. It would only have to be done once, and wouldn't even require TA to be installed, just to have the CD in the drive.

It doesn't have to be rock-solid, either... just the fact that you make an effort would probably help the legal issue considerably.

Mod integration could be part of modrules.tdf. If the mod specifies that OTA content is used, the game pops up and says "please locate totala1.hpi on Total Annihilation disc 1" if it hasn't been done once already.

[Bhaal]

i think it s a good idea but... a lot of people will leave spring after this, because they don t own ta.

[10053r]

Spring's legality is fine, especially if we switch to nanoblobs or 1944 or something with no TA models, scripts, and sounds in it for the default mod. We should probably change the url to "spring.clan-sy.com" though.

For AA and XTA and others with TA models in them, we should remodel. And in all honesty, given all the features that spring supports for models that weren't supported in OTA, the new ones can look much better than the old ones anyway.

As long as there is non-free content in spring (or popular mods), we can get the rug pulled out from under us at any time. Look what happened to Symantec and McCaffe with Vista. Microsoft just forced them to rewrite their entire product from the ground up, because they relied on non-free content.

We've already taken care of maps. Let's take care of the sounds, models and scripts.

Lastly, and in direct response to your post Cadyr, there is legal precidence for what you suggest to not be ok. (BTW, I am not a lawyer, and this should not be construed as legal advice). In the case with mp3.com vs the RIAA (I think they were the litigants), it was ruled that mp3.com could not distribute mp3s, EVEN AFTER PEOPLE PROVED THEY HAD A RIGHT TO THE MATERIAL by inserting a cd into their drive. The ruling was based on the fact that mp3.com had made their mp3s from their own cds. So even though the contect they used to create the mp3s was bit for bit identical to the content the users already had rights to, it was decided that it was not ok for mp3.com to hand out mp3s. The only difference between that situation and our situation that I can see is that we are a multinational group, where as mp3.com was only doing business in the USA.

Long term, the only way we are going to get to breathe easy on the legal front is if we remove all non-GPL content. If you want AA to be free and legal, I think you need to start swapping out models and sounds. I imagine you have rewritten all the scripts a dozen times anyway from scratch, but any ones you haven't you need to do that for also. Same with XTA, and any other mod based on OTA. I don't think this is quite as bad as it sounds. There is a great commander model in XTA that is not from OTA that you can put in AA, for example. I'm sure there are lots of other models that aren't from OTA that look similar enough to leave the role of the unit alone. And there are lots of other space / robot games that are free that you can grab content from for sounds. Then just change all the names on units that are words that were made up by Cavedog. ("Moho" will probably have to go, for example, but "Goliath" and "Commander" should be fine because they were taken from elsewhere by cavedog to be used in OTA).

[FoeOfTheBee]

Creating new models isn't enough. Check out the second bullet point:

Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U. S. Code) to the authors of ├óÔé¼┼ôoriginal works of authorship,├óÔé¼┬Ø including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following:

* To reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords;
* To prepare derivative works based upon the work;
* To distribute copies or phonorecords of the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
* To perform the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
* To display the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work; and
* In the case of sound recordings*, to perform the work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.

That's from http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp

Evolva models, for instance, are pretty clearly derivative works.

[rattle]

Yeah you'd have to RE-model everything into something new unique. I dont mind a check on original TA or CC files cause I own the games
But you know how people are, they'll simply distribute the file to them who need it so it's useless in the long run.

[Argh]

... which is why everybody should come work on XvM, or at least lend us moral support, so that Foe and Company (and, er, me) don't go insane trying to finish it

[Das Bruce]

What about those who long ago lost their disks or had them destroyed?

[rattle]

I've heard you can still buy TA and all of it's extensions.

[Snipawolf]

ShhhSHHH! I do not own TA legally, none the less Spring... XD (I got TA from my friend...

[rattle]

I'm so gonna sue you.

[jcnossen]

After years of distributing OTA content, I think it's not really needed to suddenly start requiring totala1.hpi. It will still be borderline legal, and doesn't help what actually has to be done (finish XvM/make free content)

[Snipawolf]

Yeah, say that to the dead zombie cow I will let loose in your room! Hahahah! Just kidding, only if you are..

I don't think this would be good, I don't wanna do the check and stuff...

[SwiftSpear]

Spring is perfectly legal without a TA CD, it's just all the TA based mods that have legality issues. In one foul swoop Atari could C&D around 95% of our current played content, but they have no legal argument against the spring engine itself. Also, because we don't own the TA content and we aren't officially supported by anyone who does it really doesn't matter what checks and balances we put in place, our legal situation doesn't improve at all.

[rattle]

I'd say everyone help with Xect vs. Mynn! It's not there aren't any TA indenpendent mods being made or exist. Roughly 8 or 9 are going the non-TA way.

[KDR_11k]

Spring is perfectly legal without a TA CD

Spring is still distributed with some infringing material AFAIK.

[Caydr]

Spring is perfectly legal without a TA CD

Spring is still distributed with some infringing material AFAIK.

Specifically, otacontent.sd7 (sdz?)... that's why AA only needs like two texture files, the rest are already there.

[Snipawolf]

People should make that mod based... OR in the next version of Spring delete it out..

[SpikedHelmet]

Caydr, a CD check is an utterly dumb idea and it only punishes every player and other mod-makers. What they should do is stop distributing TA content with Spring, and leave it up to players to download each individual mod. That way, copyright infringement would be mod-maker's problems, not theirs, which is the way it should be.

(Funny this thread was started by the maker of the most popular TA-content-based mod! Not to start anything, but seriously, instead of trying to find out ways why you shouldn't have to change anything, just make sure AA doesn't have TA content in it so you don't get sued! AA is popular enough that you shouldn't have a problem finding legions of people willing to redo every model, texture and sound.)

[Fanger]

Why do people always forget Expand and Exterminate..

All I need to do is replace the textures on the units and it is OTA content free.. in all ways that count..

[FizWizz]

<3 E&E.
As soon as the textures are redone, then we can have a totally TA-free mod to distribute with Spring and there will be no more "oh noes t3h big scary Atari might kill us!" threads!