What no one reads, the Visual Studio EULA.

[PauloMorfeo]

So i was trying to install Visual Studio 2005 beta 2 to see if it is easier to mess around with Spring (since it seems most devs use it) and i got to the EULA (which no one reads).

End User License Agreement
Be sure to carefully read and ...
...
(c) The SOFTWARE may contain and/or be accompanied by ... other ... programs ... programs that may include a separate end-user license agreement; ...
...

Don't even ask what those other EULAs look like. I've read some and .. let's just see this one, which is quite enough.

...
(d) Internet-Enabled Features. Since this SOFTWARE is a prerelease version, some of its Internet-enabled features are turned on by default. Those features collect information from the computer on which such SOFTWARE features are installed and send it to Microsoft. ... If You choose to install and use this SOFTWARE, You authorize the automatic collection of information from Your computer by these features. ... Microsoft may disclose this information to others such as hardware and software vendors in a form that does not personally identify You ...
...

Basically, you are agreeing to total rapage of your privacy.

...
(e) Recipient may not disclose the results of any benchmark test of Microsoft .NET Framework or Microsoft SQL Server 2005 that accompanies this SOFTWARE to any third party without Microsoft├óÔé¼Ôäós prior written consent.
...

No shit!? No wonder that MS's products have the «best» performance in the market.

...
(i) Recipient may from time to time provide suggestions, comments regarding usability, bug reports, test reports or other feedback (collectively, "Feedback") to Microsoft with respect to the SOFTWARE. All Feedback is and shall be given entirely voluntarily.

(j) Recipient agrees that: (i) []Microsoft may freely use, disclose, reproduce, license, distribute and otherwise commercialize the Feedback in any Microsoft product[/b], technology, service, specification or other documentation (collectively, ├óÔé¼┼ôMicrosoft Offerings├óÔé¼┬Ø); (ii) Recipient also grants third parties, without charge, only those patent rights necessary to enable their products, technologies or services to use or interface with any specific parts of a Microsoft Offering that incorporate the Feedback; and (iii) Recipient will not give Microsoft Feedback subject to license terms that seek to require any Microsoft Offering that incorporates or is derived from any Feedback, or other Microsoft intellectual property, to be licensed to or otherwise shared with any third party.
...

To be honest, this last one i don't fully understand it. Still, it does not look good at all.

...

As well as the usuall «even though you paied your ass of to buy this, we offer you absolutely no waranty» crap. Even though it is a beta test version, the comercial versions are the same. (Novell's license for Suse Linux Enterprise and Novell Linux Desktop(?), the ones you pay for, allow for indemnification up to x(50?) times the value paied for the software. That takes guts and confidence on it's software!)

Maybe if more people read the EULAs, not so many would still be using MS's products... I guess i won't be using Visual Studio after all... It was a harsh decision...... but freaking hell, to hell with it! I won't be having my privacy voluntarily raped like that!

Now off to make a nice fire, throw the CD in and dance the happy-burn dance.

[Caydr]

A lot of programs collect anonymous statistics, it helps hardware and software developers see what kind of market penetration certain products are having and determine, given the current technology curve, what their system requirements can safely be without alienating a significant portion of the user base.

[Tim Blokdijk]

Yeah, sure but they could ASK for it, not just do it and mention it in a license that is sort of attached sideways to the main license.

If people would just respect copyright.. things would be a lot easier, nobody would pay 300 for a MS OS license if you can get technical superior products for free. (Or for 50 dollar as with Novell's SLED)
More respect for copyright would also mean people here would not hang on to the OTA content, I would love it if you would spend your time on GEM and not that much on AA.
It's like putting a chain on your neck and giving the end to Atari - while saying "do as you please".

Anyway....... little frustration from a Linux user.

[EDIT]
Few hours later, sorry for that Atari remark it's not the point I like to make.
The point is that if people where more critical and not just rip and pirate the software, clicking past EULA and other stuff software companies won't be in a position to make demands of there customers and charge them for it to.

Same thing is that I decided to ask GPG if people would have to agree to a NDA for the SupCom beta that would prevent them from working on Spring.
GPG could have decided to do such a thing, if this would have been the case - how many people would have read the NDA and understand that it would mean we would have to retract things like commit access?
[/EDIT]

[HawkMan]

you did read the beta part? you know the one at the very start of your quotes.

You allready agreed to the anonymous data collection when you grabbed the beta in one of the checkbox, the EULA is just double verification.

the beta thing is also the reason that you are nto allowed to submit benchmarks, they don't want beta software with debug code still in it to be used inofficial benchmarks as these will be substantially slower.

as for the last part, it just means that if you submit feedback or suggestions ont his beta software, MS is allwoed to use them in ads("what customers/users have to say" stuff) and in the manuals and such.

[KDR_11k]

It also means that they're allowed to build your feedback into the program without being forced to bay you royalties for it.

[10053r]

Once the linux version is multiplayer compatible with the windows version, you can just come over to linux and test your patches there. No nasty EULAs, just the nice clean GPL. Any idea when that will happen? I heard it was the next version after .73b1?

[rattle]

It happens when they figure out a way to stop games from desynching I guess.

[PauloMorfeo]

you did read the beta part? you know the one at the very start of your quotes.

You allready agreed to the anonymous data collection when you grabbed the beta ...

I didn't downloaded it. I got mine in fisical form from Microsoft sent to me. Don't really remember how. Maybe because i am MCP certified.

...
the beta thing is also the reason that you are nto allowed to submit benchmarks, they don't want beta software with debug code still in it to be used inofficial benchmarks as these will be substantially slower.
...

Indeed, you are right, it sounds reasonable for this beta program .. but:
It is not beta only. I've checked the full-standard EULAs for other programs, like the .NET platform and SQL server. .NET only allows benchmarks upon heavy restrictions (basically only if they allow it) and SQL server only upon explicit autorization from MS. I bet regular version will be the same.

It was a cold shower... I wanted to install it to mess with Spring.
It is one thing to ask for feedback, it is another to force it. It is even worst to force people to allow them to provide anyone else with your information.
(i have a serious issue with beeing forced into stuff, especially stuff i don't like)

[PauloMorfeo]

EULA Wars
Actually, marketing wars. If anyone remembers, the knownly infamous anti-linux marketing campaign of Microsoft, "Get the Facts"(?), recently, publicised greatly that Windows had a better performance than Linux where the tests were extremely biased. Now, when installing SuseLED 10 i found this in the EULA:

...
Benchmark Testing. This benchmark testing restriction applies to You
if You are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on the
Software at the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor. You
may not, without Novell's prior written consent not to be unreasonably
withheld, publish or disclose to any third party the results of any
benchmark test of the Software. If You are a vendor of products that
are functionally similar to or compete with the Software ("Similar
Products"), or are acting on behalf of such a vendor, and You publish
or disclose benchmark information on the Software in violation of this
restriction, then notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the
Similar Product's end user license agreement, and in addition to any
other remedies Novell may have, Novell shall have the right to perform
benchmark testing on Similar Products and to disclose and publish that
benchmark information and You hereby represent that You have authority
to grant such right to Novell.
...

A extremely smart move by Novell, disalowing the kind of biased benchmarking that Linux has been target of by Microsoft's marketing campaign or, implicitly, giving permission to Novell to do the same.

[BlackLiger]

Has anyone here who is installing MS visual studio bothered to read their WINDOWS EULA?

Its more or less the same. You've had no privacy since you installed it. Legal or Illegal.

Sorry :)

[Dragon45]

McNealy (CEO of SUN Microsystems) said that "Privacy is dead. Get used it".