All FF threads locked?

Sgt Doom · Post by **Sgt Doom** » 22 Jul 2006, 14:39

How the hell did they all turn into flame wars? Could someone post a shortened version of the events leading up to the lock?

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 22 Jul 2006, 14:54

min3mat and some other people decided OP was a jerk and balencing FF wrongly, Even though none of them wanted ot balence the mod themselves, or take over development of it. OP has now decided to stop work on FF. Basically thats the story.

Sgt Doom · Post by **Sgt Doom** » 22 Jul 2006, 14:55

I really liked that mod. Oh well, are any other space-based mods planned or in dev?

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 22 Jul 2006, 14:56

only GEM. Which Caydr is making.

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 22 Jul 2006, 15:08

i dont stop developing it. Atm i m just making a short break for my sec mod project, but i think i will rework in some weeks. I still have some minor balance issues found through one nice player who told me that he tested some units . There are actually 2 units, but its not a great balance prob.
I only will not argue again with some people of the forum about FF. I think its better for all.
Sadly that there are only all people who hate FF discussing here. Some ppl wrote me PMs that they support me and like the mod, but i think the niveau of the discussion forced them to dont write anything public. Perhaps it was a clever decission.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 22 Jul 2006, 15:35

The mod isn't yours... You ported it and then rebalanced it. Frankly you don't act like a very competent game developer. When people tell you things like "this unit is unbalanced" or "your game isn't fun for this reason" You either insult them saying they haven't played the game properly or enough or something like that or you just stoneface say "no it isn't" without giving any reason.

Game developer rule of thumb, as soon as a game is released the developer isn't the best at the game any more, there will always be a player who finds something you didn't think of or plays in a way better then you can manage. I honestly don't care if you've never been beaten at your mod, if someone makes a complaint a competent developer follows it up and determines once in for all if it's valid. If you've done this you would be able to argue a counter point rather then insulting the people who raise complaints like a competent developer would.

AFAIK other springer's are now picking up the FF project, and I honestly hope they have learned from your mistakes.

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 22 Jul 2006, 15:42

thats not true - i wrote very often that everyone can show me IN GAME if you think a unit or tactit is imba. But when i see for example ppl tell me ods is an imba unit, i can counter it very easily. And btw... from all ppl who discussed in the threads, only min3 was someone who i would call a player. I never saw one of the rest in one of the games i played. I think most of them just told me things which someone else said them and thats it.
My offer is still open - show me an imba unit and i will change it!

Day · Post by **Day** » 22 Jul 2006, 15:45

did you even read what swift wrote?

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 22 Jul 2006, 15:56

i did, but that doesnt changes my point of view that if people tell me that something is imba, they have to show it to me, so that i can prove it. It dont counts if i m better than someone else, you can show me replays or whatever, but i know the unit datas better than all others and i should know if something sounds not true.
And i dont need a reason when i say that the game is a lot of fun to me. That is my oppinion and you cant change it. I heard a lot of imba thoughts from people ig, but till now, i was able to show them all, that there is an effective counter.
To come back to ODS if you want a real counter argue: try stunning towers... reclaim them with cscs, blast them with commander.

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 22 Jul 2006, 16:14

LAWL
I'd say when so many people disagree with your ideas, Cpn Autobot (don't take this offensive now, I just prefer decepticons), why don't you just create a mutator for them, call it FF Rebalanced, with their balancing ideas and be done with it. Or let someone else handle it and everyone is happy (more or less). Each side bitching at the other doesn't help in any way...

There should be some enforced (by mods perhaps) forum rules to prevent flamewars aka talkshow behaviour in the first place to be honest. It's really annoying if 8 of 10 pages of a thread contain flames and lots of loose emotions when you only wanted to see, how the mod is developing... (in general, because the FF threads aren't the only ones)

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » 22 Jul 2006, 16:46

exactly thats what is going on now. They will make their version of FF and perhaps we will take them together so ppl can choose and after a long time we will see what will be more played.
But to the point that so many ppl arent happy with it, like i said: 4 of 5 of them didnt even tried one of the last 4 versions - or at last not over lobby client with many players and not more than one or two games, else i would have seen them at least one time.
PS: i like decepticons more too :D but optimus ruled in the transformer movie

Sgt Doom · Post by **Sgt Doom** » 22 Jul 2006, 17:28

To tell the truth, I don't care about the balance. I usually play against AI anyway.

The only balance issue I even care about is that Arm has no equivalent of the Core titan.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 22 Jul 2006, 18:09

Drone_Fragger wrote:Even though none of them wanted ot balence the mod themselves, or take over development of it. OP has now decided to stop work on FF. Basically thats the story.

There is only one of me and I have gundam and my school project to deal with. I would help directly if I could but if you need any advice, have any technical or script issues. My pm box is open for questions.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 23 Jul 2006, 06:30

Cleaned.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 23 Jul 2006, 07:57

Wait...err...is disscusion open here again?

DeathHawk · Post by **DeathHawk** » 23 Jul 2006, 10:50

I Beleve Optimus Prime tried the best of his ability to develop that mod Everyone should stop being such an asshole to him i mean so what the games not perfect its not his fault hes tried his best give the guy a break.

Sgt Doom · Post by **Sgt Doom** » 23 Jul 2006, 10:54

DeathHawk wrote:I Beleve Optimus Prime tried the best of his ability to develop that mod Everyone should stop being such an asshole to him i mean so what the games not perfect its not his fault hes tried his best give the guy a break.

Seconded.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 23 Jul 2006, 11:13

DeathHawk wrote:I Beleve Optimus Prime tried the best of his ability to develop that mod Everyone should stop being such an asshole to him i mean so what the games not perfect its not his fault hes tried his best give the guy a break.

That's the thing, if he's developing the game then it IS his fault. Good developers follow up complaints of problems and they do it without insulting the person who reported it. I'm not saying there was never jackasses who just were acting stupid, I'm saying that there was people who made legitimate bug reports and complaints and got criticized for it.

If OP is going to play the role of a game designer then when someone criticized a balance choice he made he should be able to say "I want it balanced this way because it does X gameplay relevant thing which is a theme I'm trying to hit" or something similar. A game designer doesn't make design decisions for no reason. Ask smoth why a certain unit in gundam has the balance or stats it was, he could probably lecture your for ages on what it's supposed to do, what it's supposed to look like, why it works the way it does, why it's significant. All I ever saw Optimus doing is saying things like "I'm not changing it because it's fun" or "You haven't played the game enough to know, you're an idiot". He might have been right, he might have been wrong, I didn't have any opinions on FF balance personally, but the fact of the matter is that those still weren't the appropriate responses for a game developer to be making in response to a criticism. His conduct made things worse for him, and THAT is why every FF thread is locked.

DeathHawk · Post by **DeathHawk** » 23 Jul 2006, 11:27

SwiftSpear wrote:
DeathHawk wrote:I Beleve Optimus Prime tried the best of his ability to develop that mod Everyone should stop being such an asshole to him i mean so what the games not perfect its not his fault hes tried his best give the guy a break.
That's the thing, if he's developing the game then it IS his fault. Good developers follow up complaints of problems and they do it without insulting the person who reported it. I'm not saying there was never jackasses who just were acting stupid, I'm saying that there was people who made legitimate bug reports and complaints and got criticized for it.

If OP is going to play the role of a game designer then when someone criticized a balance choice he made he should be able to say "I want it balanced this way because it does X gameplay relevant thing which is a theme I'm trying to hit" or something similar. A game designer doesn't make design decisions for no reason. Ask smoth why a certain unit in gundam has the balance or stats it was, he could probably lecture your for ages on what it's supposed to do, what it's supposed to look like, why it works the way it does, why it's significant. All I ever saw Optimus doing is saying things like "I'm not changing it because it's fun" or "You haven't played the game enough to know, you're an idiot". He might have been right, he might have been wrong, I didn't have any opinions on FF balance personally, but the fact of the matter is that those still weren't the appropriate responses for a game developer to be making in response to a criticism. His conduct made things worse for him, and THAT is why every FF thread is locked.

ok swiftspear thank you and i agree but no ones perfect i am sure when Optimus Prime reads this he may realise where hes gone wrong, its humen to make mistakes i just dont think its fair that everyone is ganging up on him like this esspecially in 3 other threads.

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 23 Jul 2006, 11:35

SwiftSpear wrote: AFAIK other springer's are now picking up the FF project, and I honestly hope they have learned from your mistakes.

I dont think you have a point talking that way.
Smoth and min3mat are the biggest assholes in this forum (well, dronefragger gets a honorable mentioning, too) and have done NOTHING but threadshitting the last 20 tries to actually get FF going.
They are the sole reason this mod died, as any thread was nothing but a flamefest by them.

They did the insults, and they were just completely unable to comprehend that people like different playstyles then they do and just could keep their mouth shut.

Yes, there are people that LIKE playing sim base, so just shut the fuck up and die.

Spring RTS Engine

All FF threads locked?

All FF threads locked?