Time to make Spring really STRATEGIC

alik83 · Post by **alik83** » 27 Jun 2006, 00:09

Now that we have full out zoom and replacing units with icons feature just a few things should be added to add real Big Scale Strategy into spring:
1) New map format with bigger maps and less resource usage for them.
2) Command to set speed and acceleration of units (i've been looking for this since the begining, but messing with formations and selectedUnitsAI never worked, although there was supposed to be setMaxSpeed command)
So you could set a group to move at the speed of slowest unit (together), or you could set it to move even more slowly (to come at the same time as some other group for example).
This should be a separate command (like setGroupSpeed to smth., so the AI could also set it)
Some rough ETA (estimated time of arrival) would be great (maybe a little difficult due to how pathfinder works now...)

Any ideas how to set this command for group?(I tried it once, maybe you would need to mess with unit scripts?)

3)Make drag-and-droppable markers (to make moveable waypoints possible). One way to make it work would be to assign some groupAI to a group and then when you gave a group a series of Move/Patrol/Fight commands the AI will draw apropriate drag-n-droppable markers(include this functionality) which you can then move and your groupAI will change the orders for the group appropriately.
4)which also reminds me the need of shortcut keys to groupAIs like you can set in your options file ALT-1 to be one groupAI ALT-2 another and so on.

Any suggestions/links to code files/help on how to implement all this highly appreciated (it's just been a long time since I modded the spring code)
Alik;)

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 27 Jun 2006, 00:35

alik83 wrote:... just a few things ...

Someone wr...

And Spring != SupCom

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jun 2006, 00:43

alik83 wrote: 2) Command to set speed and acceleration of units (i've been looking for this since the begining, but messing with formations and selectedUnitsAI never worked, although there was supposed to be setMaxSpeed command)
So you could set a group to move at the speed of slowest unit (together), or you could set it to move even more slowly (to come at the same time as some other group for example).

Listen, this has been discussed ad nausem. If the unit has a run animation.. it is not as simple as slowing down the timing. It will look stupid.

mehere101 · Post by **mehere101** » 27 Jun 2006, 00:57

Despite the fact that slowing a unit animation down might look dumb, having your freakin huge punishers get wasted by a peewee rush because your attack arrived in waves determined by speed and had your nice anti-swarm units wasted is much more dumb.

AF · Post by AF » 27 Jun 2006, 01:07

There's an ETA groupAI like that in the NTai installer

esteroth12 · Post by **esteroth12** » 27 Jun 2006, 01:23

a lot of this is MTR...

and the ETA groupai wont fix it... the best way (i think) is to use staggered move and wait commands... the problem is that you have to check the attack every now and then because they wont move until you un-wait them

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 27 Jun 2006, 01:25

We don't need bigger maps, the current mods can easily be halved in scale. Halve speed, range, aoe, and weapon velocity, and your map is suddenly twice as large. Same concept as minispring, without the bugginess.

AF · Post by AF » 27 Jun 2006, 01:26

Exept then you reach barriers such as unit x is the smallest footprint ti cna ahve and you wanna half it.

or the targetting stuff with collision detection and tiny units.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 27 Jun 2006, 01:35

I haven't really noticed many problems when I thirded the size of all E&E units. There were no collision detection issues. The only problem is the wanting to halve something, but I'd prefer to have access to a half-footprint, rather than quadrupling the memory requirements so I can have a 64x64.

That being said, it would be nice to have access to larger maps, they just aren't really necessary.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 27 Jun 2006, 03:00

Eh. I disagree with you Deci - there are very real collision detection issues when you get down to units that take up about a seventh of a 1x1 footprint.

We can't scale up anymore, since then the reletive weapons ranges are ginormous - even as they are we've fudged a bit to make them more manageable. At the current size, hit detection problems with fast projectiles (like bullets!) are a big problem, but we're trying to cope by messing with shields and such.

alik83 · Post by **alik83** » 27 Jun 2006, 05:33

Well, that's not too much constructive thoughts...
I just wonder if someone already looked at something similar to those points and could point me to the source files/variables/just general ideas on how to implement those suggestions,
and I'll definately look into the ETA groupAI from AF.

And for setting different speed to units- the unit's walk animation speed should just change accordingly for it not to look stupid, although I have no idea how to implement it...
Alik

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jun 2006, 05:35

alik83 wrote:Well, that's not too much constructive thoughts...

Alik, do a search in this forum about speed and look for me as a poster you will find a thread discussing slowdown and why it won't work... in this engine.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 27 Jun 2006, 07:59

I'm just seconding what Nemo said.

We had some huge difficulties when we made Stormtroopers smaller, and still have issues with Battle Droids.

It is quite frustrating, because we wanted to make everything at accurate scale, but because we can't scale infantry down any smaller (due to collision detection issues), and it would result in insanely large units.

(And, Ironically, once units start to get too big, the limited sphere collision detection starts to fail them again)

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jun 2006, 08:02

true that!

Zsinj, is that pronounced z-singe?

anyway... I really wanted to see scale swta troopers. I hope one day this will be a possibility.

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 27 Jun 2006, 08:18

smoth wrote:
alik83 wrote: 2) Command to set speed and acceleration of units (i've been looking for this since the begining, but messing with formations and selectedUnitsAI never worked, although there was supposed to be setMaxSpeed command)
So you could set a group to move at the speed of slowest unit (together), or you could set it to move even more slowly (to come at the same time as some other group for example).
Listen, this has been discussed ad nausem. If the unit has a run animation.. it is not as simple as slowing down the timing. It will look stupid.

A quick and not so dirty fix could be : if you make move your unit with an "alt-move order", and then define a path with a few checkpoints, the unit could wait at each check point that every other unit is arriverd.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 27 Jun 2006, 08:34

and I suggested this in the other thread. People ignore me apparently.

optionA:
You set your units out to move to waypointA, you use formation. The units arrive one by one at waypointA and wait for the others in formation. Then they proceded to waypointb stop untill their allies reach and then procede to C. I think it will look cool as hell and get what you want.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:42

Woulndt the wait command do that?

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 28 Jun 2006, 15:11

I'm pretty sure it's just "Zinge", but I'm not too sure. For those interested, Admiral-turned-Warlord Zsinj is a character from Star Wars EU novels. X-Wing series, I think.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 28 Jun 2006, 15:55

yup used to read them ages ago, Michael Stackpole =)
someone pls MTR this! it would be sweeeeet

emmanuel · Post by **emmanuel** » 28 Jun 2006, 19:52

the scale problem is now very important
when you size an human look the trees and your foot print is 0.2 or 0.3
=so i prefere have a big green box and keep the trees
SWta choose to have troopers same high a spine tree
after test i agree smooth when said commander is a goldorak like with crew pilot located in head and windows are eyes of the robot

=the real problem is how to modelise a drone subsized to an human ???

Spring RTS Engine

Time to make Spring really STRATEGIC

Time to make Spring really STRATEGIC

Re: Time to make Spring really STRATEGIC

Re: Time to make Spring really STRATEGIC

well,

Re: well,

Re: Time to make Spring really STRATEGIC