Build time (BT!) as a feature

MrAstrup · Post by **MrAstrup** » 31 Mar 2005, 22:47

Hi everybody.

It just came to my mind that build time is used very often in RTS games.

Could we implement a feature in the game which supports this idea like e.g. not being able to open fire/remove enemy structures like metal extractors etc for a preset amount of time.

Any other ideas on how to implement this or does it just sound irrelevant to you?

Please stick to the topic and don├é┬┤t g├â┬®t side tracked!!! There are too many forums infested by members who can├é┬┤t stick to the point for very long time because it├é┬┤s more important for them to hear themselves talking than enriching the discussion. I better stop before I get side tracked myself.....

-MrAstrup

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 31 Mar 2005, 23:05

u mean knowing exactly how long is left before build is finished? if u do that is a good idea and it has already been suggested

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 31 Mar 2005, 23:17

One could easily envisage a wide variety of gametypes if there existed a sufficiently powerful scripting core, perhaps finally letting the engine implement the various mini-games that have sprung up over the years- Flea Races, Thud Distance Contest, etc etc. Its all very possible if we just sit and wait.

MrAstrup · Post by **MrAstrup** » 31 Mar 2005, 23:21

I just meant having build time to begin with in a game for e.g 15 min, so that you have time to set up you base.

-MrAstrup

AF · Post by AF » 01 Apr 2005, 00:03

So all I have todo is send thousands of crawling roaches to follow you commander and you cant get rid off them till build time is over by which time they go boom and I win?!?!?!?!?!?!?

We have build time and we dont need it as a feature to use it otherwise it'd be abused.

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 01 Apr 2005, 00:41

oh you mean peace time. yer in cissacks (the expansion and 2) there is something called peace time. it was made part of the game coz all the players used such a concept. this is because in cossacks one needs ALOT of time to build up ur base + army (coz of all the little micromanagment stuff). so usually players would set up a 1 or 2 hour peace time (although on really big maps 4 hours sometimes isnt enough). any way in cossacks what happeneds is that a border appears around your teritory. if an enemy unit attacks during peace time it dies instantly. the only thing is that in ta there is no need for peace time. one can quite easily set up a base and have tech level 2 units in less then 10 minutes.

jouninkomiko · Post by **jouninkomiko** » 01 Apr 2005, 01:27

countless times i have played TA games with people and agreed to a build time before the game ever started. has worked for me so far

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 01 Apr 2005, 01:47

No regular TA player ever uses build time. Ask for build time online and you are generally scoffed at.

If you want built time in TA, then you have generally missed the point of the game...

... 4 hours build time?!?

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:33

Peacetime doesn't make sense in TA, it defies the point of the game. This might be an option for some mod of a completely different game in Spring, but yeah anyway,

BeeDee · Post by **BeeDee** » 01 Apr 2005, 06:38

Warlord Zsinj wrote:No regular TA player ever uses build time.

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/no_true_Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge. What's the harm in allowing the option? "Regular" players can ignore it and the non-regular players can use it as they wish, and perhaps someday become "regular" players as tastes change.

Doomweaver · Post by **Doomweaver** » 01 Apr 2005, 08:23

I don't agree, its like putting cheats into the game, n00bs will use them against our better judgement and then they get used to them and can't play without them. It's just a good way of wrecking the game.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 01 Apr 2005, 10:31

I agree with doomweaver.

TA was designed and balanced for the game to be a head on rush of explosions and destruction straight from the word "go". Hence the inclusion of raiding units such as the flash and instigator, hence the light rocket towers, etc.
Build times obsolete whole swathes of the tech tree, defeating the whole purpose of TA's careful balance.
Not only that, but build times ruin half the fun.

No, there is no need to include an option for a tiny minority of players who are playing the game in a very stunted way.
Should anyone really want to include a "peace time" they can just agree too it before the match. Including an option just encourages people to play the game, which (from the majority perspective) is the wrong way to play it.

... And no, I'm not saying just because I believe in one way, people shouldn't be allowed to do it another. I'm not stopping people from using peace time, I'm saying it is a waste of time for the SY's, and wouldn't be included in the best interests of the game.

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 01 Apr 2005, 10:47

Warlord Zsinj wrote:... no need to include an option for a tiny minority of players ...

That's not really true. There are alot of players that want to play like that.

jouninkomiko wrote:... people ... agreed to a build time before the game ever started. has worked ...

I think so too, mainly because it should be hard to implement...

Also, i really think that the pressure of a possible rush attack or the possibility of rushing are part of TA.

Maybe in version 2.0!?

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 01 Apr 2005, 10:51

And on what rules do you base it?

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 01 Apr 2005, 12:19

Warlord Zsinj wrote: ... 4 hours build time?!?

in cossacks (in the expansions) the maps are so big that it takes an infantryman about 40 minutes to get from one corner of the map to another. the maps are VERY big. each unit has no less then 50 different upgrades which can be applied to it, so thats why one needs peace time, to finish most of the building and upgrade...

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 02 Apr 2005, 06:57

I have Cossacks.

I'm sorry, it can't take Four hours of sitting around on the internet. That would be so incredibly boring. Have they heard of single player? Or even SimCity?!?

Waiting for all the buildings and upgrades to be complete?

That's like saying "to hell with gamedesign, lets just skip to the end of the game and throw units at each other for a few hours". Yeuch. Those people should go play another game, seriously. I don't think Cossacks is quite offering what they are after...

AF · Post by AF » 02 Apr 2005, 07:07

Or maybe the buildings are pretty :idea:

BlackLiger · Post by **BlackLiger** » 02 Apr 2005, 08:59

In TA, Epic Map, 8 players, low amounts of metal. Low starting resorces. Thick forests on terrain (say epic africa) and then its a free for all. Thats the only way i can see a 4 hour + TA battle.

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 02 Apr 2005, 10:49

Even then, the players would have to be very balanced to last 4+ hours. I know I couldn't, it'd just get boring.

WillRiker · Post by **WillRiker** » 02 Apr 2005, 14:00

this is in the expansions, not hte original cossacks. cossacks 2 promises to have maps 64 times larger then expansions (which themselvestook 40 for an infantry man to cross from corner to corner) wounderfull empire building opotunities. cossacks is about building not a single battle

Spring RTS Engine

Build time (BT!) as a feature

Build time (BT!) as a feature