Looking into map-making, need a bit of help:

[Eaglebird]

I've read most of the tutorials all the way through and tried to gain an understanding of not how a map is put together, but how all the pieces work together. In this, I've found a few questions I'd like answered, if anyone can help.

My first map is a noob map, obviously. I'm creating it, one, to see if I can actually make a map, and two, so that if it works like I want it to, I can play it with a few friends and just enjoy the time together.
It's a full-metal map, something like Seven Islands from OTA, but not the exact same thing. Just Metal Islands.

Questions I have (I'm using Maelstrom's SMD Creator, but I think I have a good grasp on how I can make my own SMD without it):
-In the SMD, what is a good value for gravity, i.e., a normal value?
-What does the SMD do: Does it add specified attributes/values to the map, or does it actually make the map?
-What file does the SMD get the 'typemap' for TERRAINTYPE(#) from?
-Since it is a full metal map, is it possible to set it for no, or very little, deformation? i.e. the Hardness in the SMD?
-What exactly is the DetailTex? The description I see in the SMD part of the wiki says "The texture which will be shown on the map in the color of the texture map when a player zooms very far in", but I don't quite understand that. What color?
-Shadow Density, what is it exactly?
-I want fog, but I'm not sure of a value. How is it determined, and, what value(s) should I avoid to avoid obscuring the overhead camera?
-Skybox: since I figure this planet that the metal islands are on is obviously somewhere out in space, I made a stars.bmp, a black sheet with little white dots, and converted it to .dds with a DDS converter I found. Should this be sufficient for the sky, or do I need to do more to make it work?
-How do I put in commander start locations, as opposed to the camera start locations?


Everything else I'm pretty sure I understand so far.

=Heightmap ([Texturemap/8]+1)
=Texturemap (Actual size of map)
=Metalmap ([Texturemap/8]+1, red where we want metal 'deposits', in my case, all red.)
=Featuremap (Completely black. I didn't want to use any trees or grass on a metal map, obviously, and I didn't know how a geovent would render. Any suggestions on how to make my own geovent for this particular map, i.e. the grated ones normally seen in OTA on metal maps, are welcome.)

*Add all that up in MapConv and get the .smt and .smf
-There is a problem here, though it doesn't seem to hinder MapConv, though I can't play my map yet some I'm not sure. In the middle of converting, MapConv gives the error "DIB Error" or something, with the info being something about a "geovent.bmp", and then gives another DIB Error about not being able to load feature map for some reason. Does the map have to have at least one feature on it, or can I leave it all black like it is now?

*Make an SMD.
-Again, does this use the .smt or .smf files at all? Or does it just, pretty much, give the map certain characteristics?

*Zip it all up with 7zip into an .sd7
-At least, this is what I think I do. I haven't gotten to this part yet.

And if you read through only %10 of this with the intentions of coming down here to put something about my being a new mapper, flame me for making a map like this, and then rally to close the thread, please don't waste your time. The map may be simple and I may be new to the whole thing, but I believe these are legitimate questions that most new mappers need answered. The only anyone would make easy maps like this is because they are like me, just want something to throw together and enjoy, or they never learned enough to branch out and utilize the engine.

[FizWizz]

[generalization]
1.) ~140 is generally accepted as a median gravity value
2.) it doesn't make the map, it just contains all the non-terrain data, like wind, water and lighting, start positions, and whatnot
3.) from the .smt or .smf file, but you need to compile the map with a typemap first.
4.) you can set super-high hardness, or you can use a tag for nondeformable terrain. It's fairly recent, check the changelog
5.) Color? it is grayscale, it gets applied on top of the texturemap and changes the brightness of the texturemap when you get close, so it gives the appearance of further detail.
6.) Ever seen your shadow in a room with many lights? shadow density ~0 (none) there. Ever seen Astronauts' shadows on the moon? shadow density ~1 (full)
7.) I cba to answer
8.) no, there's a specific format for skybox pictures, I should upload a labeled sample to FU...
9.) Commander start locations are the camera start locations...
[/generalization]

[Eaglebird]

[generalization]
1.) ~140 is generally accepted as a median gravity value
2.) it doesn't make the map, it just contains all the non-terrain data, like wind, water and lighting, start positions, and whatnot
3.) from the .smt or .smf file, but you need to compile the map with a typemap first.
4.) you can set super-high hardness, or you can use a tag for nondeformable terrain. It's fairly recent, check the changelog
5.) Color? it is grayscale, it gets applied on top of the texturemap and changes the brightness of the texturemap when you get close, so it gives the appearance of further detail.
6.) Ever seen your shadow in a room with many lights? shadow density ~0 (none) there. Ever seen Astronauts' shadows on the moon? shadow density ~1 (full)
7.) I cba to answer
8.) no, there's a specific format for skybox pictures, I should upload a labeled sample to FU...
9.) Commander start locations are the camera start locations...
[/generalization]

1) Check
2) Gotcha
3) How do I compile the map with a typemap?
4) This is in the SMD?, I'll check the changelog. Also, is there a way to specify the texture used on what turns into a crater? Metal is deformable, though if not really, I will just make it undeformable.
5) Hmm, so why does it ask for DetailTex? Well, not ask, really, but what value do I put in? A name or a number?
6) Ah, makes sense.
7) cba? can?
Eight (Darn smilies)) Ok, can you give me an example, or tell me the format or how to get this format? If it's not easy (I don't know what you consider easy, I've done mapping for HL and HL2, though this isn't much the same at all), or if the tools I need to get this format need to be payed for or aren't readily available, then don't worry about it.
9) So how do I set start locations for each commander/team?

- One more question: Is using L3DT mandatory to making maps for Spring? I have some trouble with it, so I prefer to do my heightmap with blurring and by hand, and then do metalmaps and the like in gimp.

[Eaglebird]

Also, I zipped it up and tried it after throwing together an SMD.
Got an error of course, and decided to post it.
Something I need to fix or something I've done wrong, I don't know, but if anyone wants to say something:


Again, I just tried it with a bit of hope, no real ntention of getting it working.. yet.

[FizWizz]

L3DT is not necessary for making maps for Spring, although praise is sung for it. You could make a map solely with MSPaint if you wanted, though I could not guarantee how good it would look.
As for the skybox template, here you go: http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showimage&ID=3713

3) How do I compile the map with a typemap?
You need to make a typemap image, I believe it uses the color red, and you paint all of what you want a certain terrain to be one color. Use a different red value (and record it!) for each terrain type. Record or remember the specific red values, you'll need those for the .smd. You need to add the -y [typemap name] parameter to mapconv. I'd recommend you download Fizzy Lakes, it uses 5-6 different terrains. I think I'll just send you the typemap for it (which I've kept).

4) This is in the SMD?, I'll check the changelog. Also, is there a way to specify the texture used on what turns into a crater? Metal is deformable, though if not really, I will just make it undeformable.
I think the tag is notdeformable=1; though you shouldn't quote me on it.

5) Hmm, so why does it ask for DetailTex? Well, not ask, really, but what value do I put in? A name or a number?
it asks for a filename, just stick a .bmp in the same place as your .sm* files. It isn't necessary though, if you don't use that tag, Spring will use the default dirt texture.
Eight (Darn smilies)) Ok, can you give me an example, or tell me the format or how to get this format? If it's not easy (I don't know what you consider easy, I've done mapping for HL and HL2, though this isn't much the same at all), or if the tools I need to get this format need to be payed for or aren't readily available, then don't worry about it.
I downloaded an add-on for Photoshop that someone posted in this forum. I know there's a seperate cubemap-making utility for .dds files that was also on this forum somewhere, though I don't remember.
9) So how do I set start locations for each commander/team?
copy the start position junk from another map. Player 1 is actually [TEAM0], and the (X,Z) coordinates are counted in pixels on your texturemap, going from the top left corner, with X going across and Z going down.

[Forboding Angel]

Also, I zipped it up and tried it after throwing together an SMD.
Got an error of course, and decided to post it.
Something I need to fix or something I've done wrong, I don't know, but if anyone wants to say something:

Again, I just tried it with a bit of hope, no real ntention of getting it working.. yet.

When you archived the map you did it incorrectly.

When you archive your map, the smd,smt,smf files must all be placed in a folder called maps NOTmap

Archive the folder, and name the archive whatever you want. If you used 7zip then the extention will be .sd7, if you used normal Zip then the extension will be .sdz

For further examples, open up maps that you have in your maps folder to take a look at the structure.

[aGorm]

Eight (Darn smilies)) Ok, can you give me an example, or tell me the format or how to get this format? If it's not easy (I don't know what you consider easy, I've done mapping for HL and HL2, though this isn't much the same at all), or if the tools I need to get this format need to be payed for or aren't readily available, then don't worry about it.

I belive your thinking of the ATI cubemapgen (very easy to use.)

http://www.ati.com/developer/cubemapgen/index.html

Also free...

You assign 6 bmps, one to each side of a cube and save with DTX 5 to make it work. However there is a stars skybox uploaded here already:

http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=2169

I think it may even be the one I made... who knows. If its good its mine.

aGorm

[Eaglebird]

L3DT is not necessary for making maps for Spring, although praise is sung for it. You could make a map solely with MSPaint if you wanted, though I could not guarantee how good it would look.
As for the skybox template, here you go: http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showimage&ID=3713

Aaahhh! I get it, thanks. :)

3) How do I compile the map with a typemap?
You need to make a typemap image, I believe it uses the color red, and you paint all of what you want a certain terrain to be one color. Use a different red value (and record it!) for each terrain type. Record or remember the specific red values, you'll need those for the .smd. You need to add the -y [typemap name] parameter to mapconv. I'd recommend you download Fizzy Lakes, it uses 5-6 different terrains. I think I'll just send you the typemap for it (which I've kept).

I pretty much have one metal texture image repeated over and over and over so it doesn't stretch and it's 8192^2, so I can get a 16x16 map. Can I just paint an image all a light shade of red and relate that to the texture?
-How big should the typemap image be?
-How/Where do I set it up to say "This color red = this texture"?
edit: -And what's the format in the .smd for texturemap? typemap0=..?


4) This is in the SMD?, I'll check the changelog. Also, is there a way to specify the texture used on what turns into a crater? Metal is deformable, though if not really, I will just make it undeformable.
I think the tag is notdeformable=1; though you shouldn't quote me on it.

There, I didn't quote you on it.

5) Hmm, so why does it ask for DetailTex? Well, not ask, really, but what value do I put in? A name or a number?
it asks for a filename, just stick a .bmp in the same place as your .sm* files. It isn't necessary though, if you don't use that tag, Spring will use the default dirt texture.

If I made another image as the detail texture, how big should it be and what exactly should it look like compared to the TextureMap?
I don't really think zooming in on metal to find dirt is right..

Eight (Darn smilies)) Ok, can you give me an example, or tell me the format or how to get this format? If it's not easy (I don't know what you consider easy, I've done mapping for HL and HL2, though this isn't much the same at all), or if the tools I need to get this format need to be payed for or aren't readily available, then don't worry about it.
I downloaded an add-on for Photoshop that someone posted in this forum. I know there's a seperate cubemap-making utility for .dds files that was also on this forum somewhere, though I don't remember.

Ok, I'll see if I can make my own, if not, I may just grab another (more professional D: ) one.

9) So how do I set start locations for each commander/team?
copy the start position junk from another map. Player 1 is actually [TEAM0], and the (X,Z) coordinates are counted in pixels on your texturemap, going from the top left corner, with X going across and Z going down.

Ah, then I can just find the pixel numbers by scrolling over it and copying where the cursor is. Should I be worried about any flipping or reversing on the map? i.e., map backwards, so start locations end up in water?

[Eaglebird]

Eight (Darn smilies)) Ok, can you give me an example, or tell me the format or how to get this format? If it's not easy (I don't know what you consider easy, I've done mapping for HL and HL2, though this isn't much the same at all), or if the tools I need to get this format need to be payed for or aren't readily available, then don't worry about it.

I belive your thinking of the ATI cubemapgen (very easy to use.)

http://www.ati.com/developer/cubemapgen/index.html

Also free...

You assign 6 bmps, one to each side of a cube and save with DTX 5 to make it work. However there is a stars skybox uploaded here already:

http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=2169

I think it may even be the one I made... who knows. If its good its mine.

aGorm

Ah, FizWizz showed me what the DDS is, though I may end up using one already made.
I just like to know what's going on behind all the mapmaking. I like to know how to put stuff together, but it annoys me a bit if you tell me how to do something and don't tell me what I'm working with.

[Eaglebird]

Archived the map again and got it to work, to some extent..
Few problems I think will be worked out when I learn how to make them, but I'll make them public anyway.

)Ground is not hard enough, I think. Shooting it instantly makes a castle out of the ground, or a subway to china.
)Cat puke texture, metal texture not showing up, probably because I don't have the typemap yet. It also has a black, hairy grass-like something coming from the ground. I'll assume this is just because of the lack of typemap, but if you guys know this will be or is related to another problem, if you could tell me that'd be great.
) -Metal extractors can be put anywhere. [This is good.]
-Metal extractor radius is nil, or negligible. [This is also good, considering it's
an all metal map.]
-Metal Extractors don't produce any metal. [This is bad. Why no metal?]

Everything else seems alright though.

[NOiZE]

Didn't read this thread, but did you took a look in our wiki?

[Eaglebird]

Didn't read this thread, but did you took a look in our wiki?

Yes, it's been very helpful, and has helped me find out what questions I need to ask.
I'll say, the information is great, it just seems (at least for me) a little, um, sparse, for my liking.

[NOiZE]

Well if you got time, you could make it better

[Eaglebird]

Well if you got time, you could make it better

I've been thinking of that. I want to wait, though, and make sure I actually know what I'm talking about.

[Forboding Angel]

Doesn't extract because it has no radius. Assign it a radiusof 20 (this is about the exact size of the extractor model.

[Eaglebird]

Doesn't extract because it has no radius. Assign it a radiusof 20 (this is about the exact size of the extractor model.

That would make sense. Thanks. xD

Also, I found the/a article in the Wiki about "create maps", and I have an idea how to do a typemap now, but if someone is posting right this second or wants to explain anyway, I'm on all feathery ears.

[Forboding Angel]

Try just reading my tut, stickyed on the maps forum... Trust me. Don't use a typemap.

Typemaps are only good for specialized occasions. Just trust me on this one.

[aGorm]

I think typemaps are usefull, just not for what most people use them for (IE speed adjustments). If I use it for a speed asjustment it is minor and for somthing that makes sences...

What they realy are usefull for is making sand soft and rock hard, which means you can esaily pokemark sand but it takes big guns to dent a mountain. Thats were there usefull. (You adjust that with the hardness multiplyer)

aGorm

[SinbadEV]

... black grass means your feature map is worng... it is probably taking your texture colour... cat puke is usually a missing or renamed smt or whatever.

Maps are tricky, but when you wrap your brain around what's going on it's acctually pretty simple...

I would suggest starting with a 2x2 (1024x1024 pixel) test map until you get the hang of it...

[Forboding Angel]

I think typemaps are usefull, just not for what most people use them for (IE speed adjustments). If I use it for a speed asjustment it is minor and for somthing that makes sences...

What they realy are usefull for is making sand soft and rock hard, which means you can esaily pokemark sand but it takes big guns to dent a mountain. Thats were there usefull. (You adjust that with the hardness multiplyer)

aGorm

An excellent example. No need to change speeds, spring already does that.