A Map Request.

A Map Request.

Discuss maps & map creation - from concept to execution to the ever elusive release.

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Argh
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A Map Request.

Post by Argh »

My only real wish right now, in terms of maps, is that I could get my hands on a very abstract, competition-pure (i.e., truly symetrical) Ashap knockoff that had a true-flat floor, or a floor with a few very distinct hemispheres (maybe with some shallow water at the bottom, as a crowd-pleaser) to allow a few units to get into cover during movement, and with plateaus that were ramped on all sides, had no teeny "back area", and no terrain deformation. The only extreme terrain would be the height difference between the plateaus and the central plain. No geos, no more than 10-by-10 in size, no smaller than 8-by-8.

I know this is a boring request, and probably ridiculously easy to make if you've learned how to use Mapconverter, but I thought I'd go ahead and ask- the worst y'all can do is tell me it sounds lame and then I'll have to do it myself. If somebody would be willing to just give the idea a go, though, I'd appreciate it- and if you make it pretty, and keep to the specs, I will happily use it in promo shots for NanoBlobs, and tout your map.

From a tactical perspective, artillery dropping from the corners- and taking/holding those corners- should be a central part of play. Taking the center can either be accomplished by main assault and grinding attrition, or by taking the free corners (in a one vs. one) and slowly closing the vice. I don't want blocking objects in the middle- negative height (i.e., shallow areas that suggest ditches, or trenches, or craters, or whatever) would be fine, just so long as the angles aren't steep enough to pose a serious problem for unit movement, and they aren't deep enough to prevent plunging fire from ever having a chance to clear them.

Here's a picture- just a quickie 3D sketch I did, laying out a possible layout of the terrain. Hopefully it will inspire something nicer than "yuck" ;) Of course, like with everything I do, I tend to imagine this with color to give it life and variety- imagine that the circles look like, say, the half-full-of-rain, ancient scarred concrete blast-pads for giant rocketships, or the worn-out holding-pools of a reactor which used to sit in the central crater, with fuzzy gunk on the edges, and reeds sticking through the green, grimy water, or something. The ditches/trenches could suggest anything from drainage ditches to fortifications to places where pipes used to be- or, perhaps, a Feature could be made to suggest some chunks of half-destroyed pipe for a couple of places (getting the angle/position would be a pain, but it might be worth it, and I could very easily whip up a section of "damaged pipe" in S3O for you guys to play with- nothing that would destroy the map's stable balance, though- just some extra scenery.

At any rate, I hope this inspires somebody- I know, I know, symmetrical maps are so boring... but, as I've said- the skin is everything. With a hot skin, this could have a sense of place and purpose... and still be a perfect, competition-grade map for NanoBlobs (and probably pretty decent for those "other mods" I hear people play sometimes ;) ).

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AF
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Post by AF »

I can imagien it'd be larger and with some addition tot he centre so it isnt a compeltely flat map, then ti would be perfect for AI testing.

The ashap plateau formata s argh described it is good but something in the middle, maybe 4 hills still in symetry placed equidistant between each corner at the edge, btu with no resources specially assigned to them, at msot maybe a geo btu otherwise them simply being landmarks and maybe a height advantage....
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hrmph
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Post by hrmph »

Just asking a few questions that will help anyone who takes on this simple project: Do you want the map to look artificial with simple textures, or more of a terragen/L3DT rendered look? I assume you want both vehicles and kbots to be able to go up and down the plateaus, how high do you want them? Does the metal map make a difference, should there be metal spots on the ground as well (This is for AF too)? How big do you want the map?

I might knock something up out of boredom; I'm sure other people will too.
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hrmph
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Post by hrmph »

I made a quick map. http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=2575

Right now its just a metal map (8x8); this will be changed in the future depending on various things. I noticed the overlord can't make it over the trenches so this will have to be addressed depending on what you think. Also I think I should add atleast one or two trenches on the top, bottom, left and right sides. Let me know what you think and I will make changes.
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AF
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Post by AF »

8x8 is too small, I'd prefer something along the size of altored divide.

Argh would you agree if the size of the map was extended so that there was the design you wanted with the slight alteration i wanted, then around that being those structures from hells teeth, but slightly raised above the middle ground level...... I'll have to come up with an example.

As for texture, as long as ti looks pretty but isnt the same old spring map. Somethign ncie and bright, futuristic looking but not a metal map. Preferably something with btis of shiny metal and grass, but not what genblood had with his map that was like that, bright shiny, pretty...
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Lol... what you're asking for, AF, and what I'm asking for... are really two different things entirely.

I don't want anything that blocks plunging fire in the middle, as that'd kind've ruin the tactical point of the map, I don't want it large, I don't want terrain around the plateaus... no... lol...

This is supposed to be a competition-grade map. They are, by definition, not large, not metal, and symmetrical. Maps like Altored Divide, while very pretty, and fun for large-scale, relaxed-pace games... are not really suitable for competition play, especially with something like NanoBlobs, where every second after "GO" is really, really crucial. On big maps, playing NanoBlobs... you'll never be able to reach your opponant before they have their economies well on their way, and have a defense that will defeat early assault by Wolfs or a small pack of Knights... it's a much different pace, and a really perfect map for it would be pretty small. That's why, other than promo screens, I don't play big maps with it very seriously. For that matter, I wouldn't play AA or XTA on big maps for serious games, either- you really lose most of the things that make an RTS work, when you give players long enough to build substantial defenses and take out all of the immediacy of early game.

At any rate, I'll take a look at this map when I get home tonight.
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NOiZE
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Post by NOiZE »

perhaps you can make a heightmap?
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Okie doke... here's a screenie, and some feedback. I really appreciate the effort of getting this built :-)

Image

Feedback:

1. I would really like it if the outer set of hemispheres was closer to the edges of the map. They should be an obstacle to movement laterally, as well as diagonally. Looking at my quick sketchup... you basically built it as drawn, so that's my fault, I wasn't thinking it through well enough (as I'm not a mapper, really, big surprise).

2. The hemispheres and trenches should be a little deeper, and I think it'd really be kewl if there was water at that level. As for movement- keep the angles to roughly 25 degrees or so, and all units will be fine. Make the trenches a bit wider, as well as deeper, because they should be big enough that the smaller units could (at least in theory) use them as lines of communication, and then emerge from relative safety and attack. I've done a lot've work with the MovementType stuff (basically re-wrote it all, got rid of a bunch of irrelevant categories, etc.) so don't worry if it causes problems with the old build of the mod- it's not really representative of where things stand.

3. While it's irrelevant to NanoBlobs whether or not it's metal, it'd matter a lot for traditional mods. I was originally thinking that the metal spots would be in the hemispheres and one on the top of each plateau, but if you want to keep it metal to keep it simple, go right ahead.

4. I think the plateau size and angle is just about perfect. Not big enough that you can porc for crap, and the angle of the plateaus means that plunging fire from defending weapons can rake the approaches, so players can defend somewhat- at the direct cost of taking up valuable real-estate. As an interesting side-note, it'll fit perfectly with one of the goals of NanoBlobs, which has been to give AI developers a good benchmark and show them a few things. For example, it totally hoses NTAI right now, because it won't seek building sites outside of a too-small radius (the distance that builders will go is an issue with anything, but in Blobs it'll really matter- if the AI can't build AutoFacs and get efficient unit production going, it's in big, big trouble).

Last comments are just aesthetic in nature, and if you would be willing to send me the image and/or the heightmap (preferably both) I'll do the image, if you'd be willing to run it through MapConv when finished.

Basically... I'd like this to feel like a post-industrial wasteland. Not so much the classic TA style, where they just draped one repeating "tech" tile over everything, but a mix of grates, greebles suggesting access locations, and lots of stained, cracked concrete, preferably with grass growing along the intersection between slabs (given the way that grass works, that might be a stretch, but what the hey).

I'm really looking for something that has a sense of place, even though it's still a very abstract battlefield, with little signs of having interacted with Nature, but obvious signs of being worn. The hemispheres and trenches need to be given a sense of purpose, as well as being functional objects, whereas the areas around them can make use of tiling quite a bit for efficiency's sake. Although, as small as the map is, I'm darn tempted to go to town and make it very un-tiled.

As for Features, I think it might be kewl to have a couple of decicript-looking cranes that towered over things, a few other random greebles, and I'd like to make a tube with a grate, like a sewer pipe, that could be placed so that it pokes out've the sides of the plateaus (I think that if the footprint is carefully managed, it shouldn't block things too badly). Basically, I want this to feel professional and polished, so that it really goes with the rest of the mod. Thus far, I couldn't be happier, though, and I really appreciate the work put into this :-)
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hrmph
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Post by hrmph »

Ahh, now thats good feedback (It actually helps). Let me do some work on the heightmap and then I'll post it up somewhere. Do you want bmp/jpeg or a photoshop file?
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Well, if it's a heightmap, a grayscale PSD, zipped, probably wouldn't be too heinous. Just for clarification (and because I'm pretty clueless about mapping, period)... the colormap needs to be how large, exactly? And are there any "secret tricks" to making sure that it matches the heightmap at critical areas, or it just sort've guesswork? Just wondering...
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm »

Just remember that each height map pixel is a 8 x 8 texture , so if you do say... a wall, you want your texture for teh ground to stop half way over the eight pixels...IE 4 pixels in. Of course, unless you go realy close nobodus goona notice you being 4 pixels out so i wouldn't worry.

aGorm
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SinbadEV
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Post by SinbadEV »

(HeightMap-1)*8=TextureMap

so if you have a 641x641 heightmap, just stretch that image to 5120x5120 and you will have a good background to match your texture up to.
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hrmph
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Post by hrmph »

Argh, check your email.
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AF
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Post by AF »

hmm, well that's a symptom of closestbuildsite however I'll add a tag that should help in XE8 or any in betweens I send you.

What my thoughts where is that for AI testing I don't think that what you've made is showing enough variation for AI's, that's mainly why i asked that terrain be extended outside past the plateaus and have a repeating pattern of structures similar to hells teeth. I don't mind having just what arghs said in the middle, or having two versions.
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

1. Got the emails, am about 80% done with the colormap, just down to detailing and greebles. I hope people will enjoy the results, I actually enjoyed making this, once I figured out a quickie way to preview it. I am making it 8X8 for now, but I might be willing to do another version of it if people liked the result. I will email the revised colormap to you (hrmph) and if you would be so kind as to help me turn this into a map, I'd appreciate it. I will send some details when I get done tonight.

2. Alantai, now that I know a bit more... if I can get some kind soul to compile the resulting heightmap and colormap and hold my hand or help put in Features/Grass/Metal/Geos, I will make a map with a wide range of terrain for a 1 vs. 1 AI tester map (which will also be OK for players, of course) that will be very specifically designed to test and strain AIs in various ways. As I said, once I got a method of previewing the resulting map, I pretty much went to town on the skin, so it'll even be pretty ;)
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Completed the colormap. This is, obviously, the shrunken version ;)

Image
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Cyberwal
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Post by Cyberwal »

hot!
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

it looks great!
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FizWizz
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Post by FizWizz »

that looks really neat. What if you gave the sewage canals a slight bit of water damage? Not enough to be a real hazard, but enough to keep people from idling their units in the water.
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AF
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Post by AF »

I think it'd be better if they where instead providing a tactical advantage as Argh described than making ti a nogo zone for all but the most powerful units, especially if your using nanoblobz where only spire rooks would end up there as a result.
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