Simple Request: Comm Ends as default?

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 16 Feb 2006, 23:29

Commander Continues absolutely destroys the balance. It wasn't the default in TA. You had two options; Commander Deathmatch which sucked beyond belief (you could keep respawning and comm bombing) and Commander Continues (which only noobs played).

With Commander Continues there is no point in building defence. You simply mass a load of flashes, walk you commander into the enemy front line/base and follow up with the tanks. It works every time and makes any other strategy utterly pointless.

People don't like Comm Ends because you can lose easily. But you just learn to adjust and be careful of your Comm. It's painful at first but you get accustomed to it. But leaving things as they are now is ridiculous. I say take out Continues as a multiplayer option altogether. Failing that, at least make Comm Ends the default as it was in TA.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 16 Feb 2006, 23:33

Comm death end, is set more often. I like it better then continue as well. (Even I use my comm to knock away enemy advances, in desperate times).

Downside is that you only need to grab a bunch of brawlers and take out the comm to win. That's kinda lame. More lame then commbombing in it's worst way.

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 16 Feb 2006, 23:43

By the time people have Brawlers you should be able to afford to cloak your Commander. And have a decent amount of air defence.

A good solution would be to make cloaking your Commander alot cheaper. By the time you have advanced vehicles he's pretty expendable, if it was cheap to cloak him then people could take that as an option.

I've just been Comm bombed 5 or 6 times in the last couple of days and It's pissing me off. You can be making great headway blowing up someones defences and he'll just charge in and bomb you. I'm in the habit of building all my factories on the front line (takes units less time to get to the front) but If everybody keeps playing Comm Cont I see I'm going to have to rethink this.

Anyway, maybe as players get more experienced and people get to know each other better we'll see more Comm Cont games. When TA was around first loads of people played Continues. It wasn't until it was out a couple of years that nearly everybody started playing Comm Ends.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 17 Feb 2006, 00:06

I'll throw my support behind this as well, people tend to play what they are used to, and they'll be used to the default option. So I would prefer that default be comm ends.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 17 Feb 2006, 00:16

I like both, dont really mind which is default... I also build factories on my frontline :) Ive lost a fair few to commbombers but if you can get an hlt up then you'll be ok, they flatten comms in aa 1.43 with about 8 hits, I do realise this is not always possible if a player sets out with the sole intetion of commboming early, but anyway, whatever I dont mind either way which is set to default

Flint · Post by **Flint** » 17 Feb 2006, 00:40

I'm a big supporter of Comm ends, mostly from experience in-game and being in agreement with Deci's + Forbs reasoning.

Dead.Rabit · Post by **Dead.Rabit** » 17 Feb 2006, 00:59

if the people wnated to play commander =death they would press the very simple button that tells it to.. its not all that hard. i guess people just prefer commander continues for the moment..

what your asking is for everyone in the entirety of spring who prefers commander continues to play commander = death which is a tad unfair really

and it doesnt really matter what the default is hosts remember to change from fixed start positions to choose start positions in game all the time.

really if you want people to play commander = death here is the wrong place to talk about it.. you need to host comm=death games and use your dreaded

You simply mass a load of flashes, walk you commander into the enemy front line/base and follow up with the tanks. It works every time and makes any other strategy utterly pointless

tactic in comm continues games to show people why comm=death is better..

but people are prepared for comm rushes these days i think and any comm rush is generally suicide for the comm without any advance gained and comm bombing is generally only used if your winning by a comical amount.

watch replays to see how others prepare for comm bombs

personally i think comm continues is better. it has its downsides of the clearing up after your enamy is defeated..
then again comm=death has its downsides of you dont actually have to be defeated or even loosing and the enamy can kill you off.

and even if people use your dreaded tactic then just change your gameplan... or develop a STRATERGY.. i said this alot when people thaught goliaths where too strong..
every stratergy has a weakness..
have u thaught about building a mobile army. send in peewees etc to take out the comm or feign it into self Ding then send in your main force

or how about 2 front lines... using the right amount of spacing or place your units to be able to get rid of a comm assault. a coms biggest weakness is its lack of range.. try to exploit that in your defences.

or even the thaught that after your enamy has wasted his comm you can do the same back to him..

and no matter how hard you try spring will never be what TA was. nor will it be what supreme commander will become its pretty much what the users want it to be...

at any rate the current trend is for commander continues.. previous trends where that nothing was as good as XTA now AA seems to lead the pack and an occasional scattering of FF and SWTA so it could change at any time... it seems im the only 1 that disagrees with this but...

what im trying to say is if comm bomb/rush is your only concern with com continues then look for a way around the problem or a way to fix it.

please dont flame me

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 17 Feb 2006, 01:20

Well I suppose what I dislike is the fact that you have to build enough stuff to take out a commander every time you advance slows down the gameplay. If you have to take into account you could be hit by an instant nuke after 8 or 10 minutes then you have to play a much more conservative, and dull, game.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » 17 Feb 2006, 02:01

erhm.. wont read the thread.. (to save in bane argumets about taste).

but!

In the lobby, whenever you host a game, there s a button aviable, its called "save default settings".

In counterpart, there s a button that says, "load default settings", push it whenever you feel like playing your "default rules" game.

TELL your fellow opponets when you are playing such commander ends games... please.

I reccomend you to use that.

the last advise, add a poll to this thread. my vote is no.

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 17 Feb 2006, 02:16

I really dont get the argument that commander continues leads to a more conservative gameplay.

The sheer opposite is true.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 17 Feb 2006, 02:24

Commander continues is more popular in spring. You can already load up custom server configuration setups in client, after that the defaults should be set to what is more popular, not what is arbitrarily decided to be better by OTA players.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 17 Feb 2006, 07:41

We could just poll it. But indeed most games I've playd are continue.
Making the comm cloack cheaper would be a great way to composite for comm death and easy win.

.funkymp · Post by **.funkymp** » 17 Feb 2006, 09:12

then again comm=death has its downsides of you dont actually have to be defeated or even loosing and the enamy can kill you off.

random thing on that

remember playing on altored divide once, on comm ends. someone on the north team (cant remember who, it was a star, have the replay around somewhere) lost there comm and died from a completely stray bertha shot, there team were pretty much slaughtering us and after they died the tides turned as the middle was completely open.
the fact that can happen and is completely unavoidable even with a cloaked comm imo is pretty gay.

comm ends - just turns it into hunt the comm down with 15 brawlers or a pack of cloaked snipers with a radar jammer. which sorta takes the fun outta the game imo

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 17 Feb 2006, 13:56

Well, you can also composate things
Make the comm not explode when he is out of a fixed radius.
Something like a limited D-gun, only for comm bombs.

You know, it sounds silly to me when I typed it down, but it may lead to something.

wizard8873 · Post by **wizard8873** » 17 Feb 2006, 16:28

Zenka wrote:Well, you can also composate things
Make the comm not explode when he is out of a fixed radius.
Something like a limited D-gun, only for comm bombs.

You know, it sounds silly to me when I typed it down, but it may lead to something.

i think this is the best option. i personally do not like commbombing either. the only time i have my comm on the front lines is early on and if the enemy forces are breaking through the line. i have seen people commbomb to take out a small defense and a person get pissed and leave. he had a huge base behind anyways and it wasnt too big of a loss.

comm death=end , imo, take the fun out of the game. you focus more on the defense of your comm than you do the actual gameplay. comm bombing does happen but the person only has one comm and its wasted after that. ive been commbombed before, and while it was annoying, i regrouped my forces, changed my strat and quickly came back.

taking comm death=continue is completely unfair. all of the new players coming in might not try the game if it is like that. they might get discouraged, and you dont learn too much if youre defending your comm and not expanding.

i think the host should have the option to kick someone who is commbombing in the game by raising a poll. without the poll, he can just kick anyone off he wishes and i know that there are people who would abuse that option. he brings it up and players from both ends get to decide. that, or we can have a kinda ranking system in which, if a person does commbomb, the players give him a negative ranking and it shows when you play and how many times youve done it. if someone feels that the ranking was unjust, theres always replays to back yourself up. i dont know how hard that would be to implement but its always a suggestion.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 17 Feb 2006, 18:09

Zenka wrote:Well, you can also composate things
Make the comm not explode when he is out of a fixed radius.
Something like a limited D-gun, only for comm bombs.

You know, it sounds silly to me when I typed it down, but it may lead to something.

Hell, you wouldn't really even need to limit Dgun if that was the case... although unlimited Dgun and unexplodable comms would just lead to comms being used as increadibly offencive D in the late game.

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 17 Feb 2006, 18:58

That's another option that could work. The Commander doesn't make any explosion when he's too far away from his start.. I like that idea. At least, its the best solution for Comm Continues.

If the Commander is too easy to kill in Comm Ends then maybe the AA and XTA mods could compensate you in that game mode. The Commander could have more armour, and free cloaking in Comm Ends (but normal abilities in Comm Continues). But that sounds a little overcomplicated. Frankly, I don't think it's hard to protect your Commander as things stand. And I often use him to d-gun peoples defences. But after the first 10 mins or so I accept he's vulnerable and take steps to get him out of harms way. Most people who lose their Commanders do so for silly reasons, like trying to take out 2 Krogoths or not having any air defence.

I guess my point is the steps you have to take to protect your Commander in the late game are alot easier than the steps you have to take to protect yourself against a Commander Bomb in the first 10 minutes. If I had to choose one of the two options I'd always go with the former.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 17 Feb 2006, 19:20

I had an idea at one point for a semi-invincible bunker that would start with the comm in the beginning of the game that you could hide units in if they were getting threatened. It would have about 25000 hitpoints so it would take virtually forever to destroy if you didn't already smack down any defence that was positioned around it. Basicly it was the last structure in the game that was supposed to die, and you could stick the comm in it in the late game with comm ends so he wasn't at risk of brawlie hunting squads and stray bertha shots.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 17 Feb 2006, 20:11

I'd support comm death = ends, but too many times now I have had someone sacrifice their commander to take mine down. It really ruins things for me.

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 17 Feb 2006, 20:35

mongus wrote:...
In the lobby, whenever you host a game, there s a button aviable, its called "save default settings".

In counterpart, there s a button that says, "load default settings", push it whenever you feel like playing your "default rules" game.
...

Sometime ago, i recomended through that Mantis feature thing, to be "Comm Ends as default". I bet you can go search it and find the discussion, mostly continued by heze.

Anyway, the feature Betalord implemented to the Lobby, the one mongus explained, was the solution to that request (as well as other stuff), if i remember well.

Spring RTS Engine

Simple Request: Comm Ends as default?

Simple Request: Comm Ends as default?