There has been some discussion about advertisement ways of gathering players and fans. But we surely wouldn't want the newcomers to come and leave with a bad impression, possibly to never return. (what a waste of «good» advertisements it would be)
The most important part of the game in creating a good first impression is it's front page. The present one just looks like that classical «crapy game who's front page doesn't even has images, only text».
Although that image on top that was added some time ago adds greatly to it's beauty, it could use more.
Fnordia already agreed to this. I'm now starting this thread to discuss the plan of how it should be done, like what things it should have, what the most unique to TA things there are, which one we want to show. Also, hopefully, get someone with moderate skills to do it.
Then, much hopefully, someone with better design skills than me will make it and Fnordia will add it and we'll have a nice shiny new front page to feast our eyes with.
New front page for Spring!
Moderators: MR.D, Moderators
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
For start, without much more thought,
Make 2 things:
1- a «control» to add to the front page (probably, still, the news section)
2- a new page with a presentation of the game
1- If small enough, it could fit in the news page, stickied on top of the news, linking to 2. Could (should?) have an image/images(?) trying to represent the maximum possible of what playing Spring is about in a small space.
2- Seperate so it can be bigger without making a front page that's slow to load and that ruins the server's bandwidth (even though, apparently, the server's bandwidth is healthy). Mostly to show what the most impressive features of playing Spring are.
Could also act as a kind of tutorial on how to play the game.
(we do have a «manual» but highlight on just the most important features and with grafical representation of them is much better).
So, it needs to be decided what are the main features of playing Spring. I can think of 2, now:
- Big battles
- Huge weaponry (BBs and stuff
)
2 more:
- Built in recorder, with the possibility to replay a game to friends (huge feature for clanning)
- Writing and adding markers to ground (also big to teaming/clanning)
1 more:
- Possibility for more than one player to control same army (also big for teaming/clanning)
1 more:
- Possibility to FPS units
Make 2 things:
1- a «control» to add to the front page (probably, still, the news section)
2- a new page with a presentation of the game
1- If small enough, it could fit in the news page, stickied on top of the news, linking to 2. Could (should?) have an image/images(?) trying to represent the maximum possible of what playing Spring is about in a small space.
2- Seperate so it can be bigger without making a front page that's slow to load and that ruins the server's bandwidth (even though, apparently, the server's bandwidth is healthy). Mostly to show what the most impressive features of playing Spring are.
Could also act as a kind of tutorial on how to play the game.
(we do have a «manual» but highlight on just the most important features and with grafical representation of them is much better).
So, it needs to be decided what are the main features of playing Spring. I can think of 2, now:
- Big battles
- Huge weaponry (BBs and stuff
)2 more:
- Built in recorder, with the possibility to replay a game to friends (huge feature for clanning)
- Writing and adding markers to ground (also big to teaming/clanning)
1 more:
- Possibility for more than one player to control same army (also big for teaming/clanning)
1 more:
- Possibility to FPS units
Last edited by PauloMorfeo on 01 Feb 2006, 14:04, edited 1 time in total.
Having lots of text isn't bad, but the space management at he moment is what needs working on.
The front page could infact lose the top image compleatly, and have a bigger image (pushing the content down)
I know alot of people dont like flash, but you could actully use it in the top. It wouldn't have to make the page have a huge download time seeing as flash progresivle loads after the other content on a page. Seeing as we want to show off teh best things about spring, having several large images in rotation at the top of the page showing of a feature and with a description of what it is would help draw noobies in (as thats the sort of thing they like, sorry to pideonhole steriotype any noobi that reads this!)
The developer news, while important, takes up way to much space. You only need the top 3 or 4 items max, and they dont need to be full width.
It should probable sit side by side the comunity news, I'd say they both only need half the width of teh page.
The descrption of what spring is about needs to get full width on teh other hand, and be the first thing under the top image (wether they make it bigger or not), but it needs jazzing up in some way.
Springs biggest problem is it doesn't sell itself. Theres no "FREE" in big letters, theres no "CONTROL 1000's OF UNITS", no "PLAY VAST EPIC BATTELS OR SMALL SKIRMISHES!". Or "FULLY DEFORMABLE TERRAIN!".
Those are the sorts of words that should be big and bold on the front page, along with sutable imagry, cause that will make people more likly to say and have a poke around to see what it realy does.
The words:
New version, 0.67b3
The previous release introduced a problem with using AI dlls through... Dont realy make you want to see what its all about.
anyway, just my opinions.
aGorm
The front page could infact lose the top image compleatly, and have a bigger image (pushing the content down)
I know alot of people dont like flash, but you could actully use it in the top. It wouldn't have to make the page have a huge download time seeing as flash progresivle loads after the other content on a page. Seeing as we want to show off teh best things about spring, having several large images in rotation at the top of the page showing of a feature and with a description of what it is would help draw noobies in (as thats the sort of thing they like, sorry to pideonhole steriotype any noobi that reads this!)
The developer news, while important, takes up way to much space. You only need the top 3 or 4 items max, and they dont need to be full width.
It should probable sit side by side the comunity news, I'd say they both only need half the width of teh page.
The descrption of what spring is about needs to get full width on teh other hand, and be the first thing under the top image (wether they make it bigger or not), but it needs jazzing up in some way.
Springs biggest problem is it doesn't sell itself. Theres no "FREE" in big letters, theres no "CONTROL 1000's OF UNITS", no "PLAY VAST EPIC BATTELS OR SMALL SKIRMISHES!". Or "FULLY DEFORMABLE TERRAIN!".
Those are the sorts of words that should be big and bold on the front page, along with sutable imagry, cause that will make people more likly to say and have a poke around to see what it realy does.
The words:
New version, 0.67b3
The previous release introduced a problem with using AI dlls through... Dont realy make you want to see what its all about.
anyway, just my opinions.
aGorm
Why does everything revolve around the new GUI? You can make a website with out a flashy GUI. You make websites in Notepad. Not Spring. Sure, screenshots of the New GUI would be great. But screenshots without any GUI can look equally as good.
I would be willing to code the new website, but Im not to great at graphic design, so someone else would have to make the images.
I would be willing to code the new website, but Im not to great at graphic design, so someone else would have to make the images.
Sorry... disapointed byt he GUI?? I can't say I have ever had any problem with the GUI. It certainly isn't flashy and cool, but it works well enough, and doesn't grate on your nerves.
I dont mind helping out with the graphics/HTML side, but would need a good programer for the backend side of things.
aGorm
I dont mind helping out with the graphics/HTML side, but would need a good programer for the backend side of things.
aGorm
I have also heard of people who are waiting for a proper GUI before they'll start playing Spring.
Well... I was planning to use this for AA at some point, but maybe it'd come in handy here.
At the top of the screen, just under the main logo and NEWS | WIKI | FEATURES | etc, there should be a kind of mission statement. Something to the effect of, to create a great, open-source, flexible game engine that is easy to create content for. Then have the project's... uh... primary attributes. I was going to use:
Quality - Stability - Strategy - Balance
I guess those last two can change depending on the mod being used, so maybe aren't so applicable... meh.
Well... I was planning to use this for AA at some point, but maybe it'd come in handy here.
At the top of the screen, just under the main logo and NEWS | WIKI | FEATURES | etc, there should be a kind of mission statement. Something to the effect of, to create a great, open-source, flexible game engine that is easy to create content for. Then have the project's... uh... primary attributes. I was going to use:
Quality - Stability - Strategy - Balance
I guess those last two can change depending on the mod being used, so maybe aren't so applicable... meh.
" people i showed spring found it cool and told be that "they would play it online when the decent ui is finished".aGorm wrote:Sorry... disapointed byt he GUI?? I can't say I have ever had any problem with the GUI. It certainly isn't flashy and cool, but it works well enough, and doesn't grate on your nerves.
I dont mind helping out with the graphics/HTML side, but would need a good programer for the backend side of things.
aGorm
In fact, i am a big angry because the beta of the new-gui that was out 6 months ago was heads and shoulders above the current version... Even though it had bugs, i would prefer it in the state it was back then...
(i mean, spring doest even have a kill counter. Or a decent player status display. Or an ingame configuration page (sound volume anybody?))
People _ARE_ put off by the gui.
Otoh, thats still no reason why not to improve the homepage. Currently it looks like Spring was some kind of project planing software or something, with all the text wasteland (and 90% of the text doesnt even matter in ANY way and could easily put on a nother page). And fixing it wouldnt bind any ressources that could help the gui.
Otoh, i would have given the gui priority over the linux port. Seriously, while i am sorry for the 4 people that cannot play spring currently, its a huge piece of work, done at a point of time where ressources are most limited and other stuff would be much more important.
PLus the fact that considering the general quality of OS gui/usability in general and games especially, i dont have high hopes in the sort of developters from the "free as in freedom" fraction such a move could attract.
http://www.dawnofwargame.com/homepage.php
I like the way this site showcases up all the races on the left, I think we could do that for the mods. It also has a nice set of screenshots on the main page.
I like the way this site showcases up all the races on the left, I think we could do that for the mods. It also has a nice set of screenshots on the main page.
If you mean the all balck GUI that everyone seemed to like, I personly hated its guts, but thats just me... Not taht I dont think we need a newe GUI, Just I don't see what it had to do with people playing teh game, or the homepage.
I agree, having the mods down one side would look neato.
The thing is i think we'd have to total ditch teh current look to be able to do anything realy good for teh homepage.... otherwise the rest of teh site wont fit in. The colours and styles currently are to limiting. (I actully do like the current site, just not for a game. like someone said, looks liek a bussiness app of some sort
)
aGorm
I agree, having the mods down one side would look neato.
The thing is i think we'd have to total ditch teh current look to be able to do anything realy good for teh homepage.... otherwise the rest of teh site wont fit in. The colours and styles currently are to limiting. (I actully do like the current site, just not for a game. like someone said, looks liek a bussiness app of some sort
)aGorm
A nice start would be to break up the text a bit.
Currently its a BIG rectangle full of uniform text. No pics, no icons, no clear destinctions between sections.
And its a _starting_ page. It would be a nice "news overview" page (seeing that its almost entirely news, news-headlines, community news, ect), but as a project homepage it kinda fails.
There should actually presented what TA- spring is: A game, a RTS, spiritual clone of total annihilation, cool looking, ect.
About that black gui: i didnt think it was perfect, and in fact i didnt really like the left sidebar/the button/graphical design.
But it had:
-map move orders (nice)
-ingame statistics: (REALLY nice, especially for replays. ALL information like in civilisation as a graph, kills, metal, units builds, energy wasted, ect. As totals or as derivative (kills per minute, ect)
-The cool space "what can i build now" feature. No need to move the mouse across the whole screen and back, just a quick pop on space and build options appear right next to your curser.
Currently its a BIG rectangle full of uniform text. No pics, no icons, no clear destinctions between sections.
And its a _starting_ page. It would be a nice "news overview" page (seeing that its almost entirely news, news-headlines, community news, ect), but as a project homepage it kinda fails.
There should actually presented what TA- spring is: A game, a RTS, spiritual clone of total annihilation, cool looking, ect.
About that black gui: i didnt think it was perfect, and in fact i didnt really like the left sidebar/the button/graphical design.
But it had:
-map move orders (nice)
-ingame statistics: (REALLY nice, especially for replays. ALL information like in civilisation as a graph, kills, metal, units builds, energy wasted, ect. As totals or as derivative (kills per minute, ect)
-The cool space "what can i build now" feature. No need to move the mouse across the whole screen and back, just a quick pop on space and build options appear right next to your curser.
Besides being rather foolish, its incorrect. The linux community is rather starved of good free RTS games, and since they tend to love open source projects, a completed windows/linux merge would bring a lot of new people to the game.IMSabbel wrote: Seriously, while i am sorry for the 4 people that cannot play spring currently.....
Oh, and then there's the fact that the average linux user is about 5x as likely to be a competent programmer in some langauge means that we're far more likely to get new devs from the linux world than from the windows side.
And then there're those devs who are focused on the port right now, who, once the port is finished, will end up helping with the game itself =)
Linux users, excuse my huge generalizations. I figure they're more or less accurate. In other news, Spring is rather playable on Wine, for a short time at least. After the game grows past a certain size, memory leaks start adding up >_<
As for GUI, I never tried the new one, but people are indeed put off by the rough state of the GUI. I usually end up coaching my friends very carefully through their first few games so they don't get frustrated.
Edit: On topic, I rather like the current clean setup. But I suppose a flashy-attention grabber would be more attractive to potential new people.
Nemo, i am aware of the open source concept since before linus started looking at minix.
If all your arguments were true, all those _other_ OS games wouldnt fail and suck so horrible as they do...
Its kinda telling that the only OS game I _ever_ found worth spending more than some minutes playing was
a) made for windows
b) made in a near-closed-source model (the first source release was kinda 90% of what we have now)
If all your arguments were true, all those _other_ OS games wouldnt fail and suck so horrible as they do...
Its kinda telling that the only OS game I _ever_ found worth spending more than some minutes playing was
a) made for windows
b) made in a near-closed-source model (the first source release was kinda 90% of what we have now)
The site of spring is as clean as the install wizard.
I really like the install as it is now. But the site can be a little more flashy, indeed.
I susspect new people to first go to the screenshots page. there they will the entire way spring walked since it was made. not all the shinyness of it. (except in the newest 10 shots or so). So making more screens will help.
As for the entire site-layout, someone* should think a concept out and see what kind of impression that gives.
* someone, can be more people and likely include me too.
I really like the install as it is now. But the site can be a little more flashy, indeed.
I susspect new people to first go to the screenshots page. there they will the entire way spring walked since it was made. not all the shinyness of it. (except in the newest 10 shots or so). So making more screens will help.
As for the entire site-layout, someone* should think a concept out and see what kind of impression that gives.
* someone, can be more people and likely include me too.
mwha, the new GUI as IMSabbel wanted it is a travesty, a thorn in the spring develoeprs side.
It would be quicker and take less effort to rewrite it than to attempt to fix it, and the new GUI that jouninkomiko is testing promises to be far more flexible than what Pius III had to offer. To say otherwise is blasphemy and utter sadism.
I would also say that the linux port merger with the widnows code tree brings with ti a lot mroe promise than just the new GUI, look at the sheer nubmer of bugs the linux people have fixed, aswell as the fact that currently more linux people are officially working on spring than windows people, off the top of ym head the onyl windows people I can remember that're on the spring dev team are fnordia jouninkomiko and Zaphod, and they're in dire neeed of more devs, which si what the port has given them.
When jouninkomiko has finished his first test run of the new GUi itnegrated into spring, who do you think is going to iron out all the little bugs and get it working perfectly?
Also, pictures and the ability to sue '&' charcters in the community news, many a time the whole community news has dissapeared when soemone posts a link that has an ampersand in it.
It would be quicker and take less effort to rewrite it than to attempt to fix it, and the new GUI that jouninkomiko is testing promises to be far more flexible than what Pius III had to offer. To say otherwise is blasphemy and utter sadism.
I would also say that the linux port merger with the widnows code tree brings with ti a lot mroe promise than just the new GUI, look at the sheer nubmer of bugs the linux people have fixed, aswell as the fact that currently more linux people are officially working on spring than windows people, off the top of ym head the onyl windows people I can remember that're on the spring dev team are fnordia jouninkomiko and Zaphod, and they're in dire neeed of more devs, which si what the port has given them.
When jouninkomiko has finished his first test run of the new GUi itnegrated into spring, who do you think is going to iron out all the little bugs and get it working perfectly?
Also, pictures and the ability to sue '&' charcters in the community news, many a time the whole community news has dissapeared when soemone posts a link that has an ampersand in it.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Answering my question if he was interested on this whole business. It was the reason i started this thread. Hope he doesn't mind me posting his reply to me.
Anyway, after the new gui is made, new images can, very easily, replace the old ones.
Also on that note, i think that, at least, some images should show the gui. Ugly or not, especially if ugly, it's better to people to see what's coming they're way before trying it.
I have some ideas on the planning and what's been said but .. i'l just care about them some other day when i'm with more time.
I think that planning is what is most lacking for now. Most people would be kind enough to create some images after specification on what's needed. Even Fnordia said to be able to do some grafics.Fnordia wrote:Yeah, a new front page design has been on the todolist for quite a while now. So perhaps it could be good to get things going. If a conclusion is reached on what should be there, I can possibly get the guy who did the rest of the site layout to do it.. Or perhaps someone on the forum is interested. I can do the final graphics->html step at least. :)
We've been waiting for the GUI forever. It doesn't matter if it is 1 hour away. Without any clearly defined deadline, we shouldn't wait one more second. That's bad productivity. We'll risk postponing it again, and again, and again, and, one day, look back and realise that we could have had the new front page many months ago.NOiZE wrote:i say wait on a decent GUI first...
Anyway, after the new gui is made, new images can, very easily, replace the old ones.
Also on that note, i think that, at least, some images should show the gui. Ugly or not, especially if ugly, it's better to people to see what's coming they're way before trying it.
I like the idea but there has to be some flash wise person that comes forward and agrees on doing it.aGorm wrote:...
I know alot of people dont like flash, but you could actully use it in the top. ...
I have some ideas on the planning and what's been said but .. i'l just care about them some other day when i'm with more time.
So what? The same thing was told last autumn, and nothing happened. I dont care weather its a total rewrite or the original, the result counts.AF wrote:mwha, the new GUI as IMSabbel wanted it is a travesty, a thorn in the spring develoeprs side.
It would be quicker and take less effort to rewrite it than to attempt to fix it, and the new GUI that jouninkomiko is testing promises to be far more flexible than what Pius III had to offer. To say otherwise is blasphemy and utter sadism.
Nobody whines that spring carries the whole depricated cruft of the old file formats around, so a stupid gui hack cant hurt that much either...
And about the "current" newgui: neither the subversion nor the cvs has ANY commits on the gui done the last 1/3 year.
There is this "newgui" thread in the dev section... which contains mainly that work is back to zero, a new open source toolkit is being used (the fact that i dont know any open source gui that isnt crap doesnt get my hopes high) and that not even one screenshot has been posted yet (which doesnt give much hope for a soon release to me.)