Community... heh. THis word can barely describe spring.
You know, I don't know where you guys get off. You lambast everyone that tries to do something for spring.
In my case it's mapping. I have put out 8 or 9 maps so far (several of them are really popular too) and damn near every post announcing the release of a map has started a flame war. This group is some of the most ungrateful derrisive morons (who couldn't do this if they tried) I have ever had to deal with. Every single time a mapper puts out a map it is either "oh your my hero" or "blah blah blah I'm a blathering idiot and like to open my big mouth to blast derrogatory criticism".
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY THEN SAY IT! OTHERWISE SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Me and the many players of mods tend to appreciate mods that are created. Such as caydr's aa and smoths emerging gundam annihilation. I talk to caydr on teamspeak on a regular basis, and I consider him my friend. One thing that really ticks me off is when you arrogant selfish bastards decide the be ungrateful for the work they do (not just smoth and caydr, but all modders in general).
Weaver made grout (very useful mapping tool)
Mother made a better version of mapconv allowing use to add features for example.
Myself and other good ppl have taken entire days to help ppl learn to map. My latest protege is smoth, and he is doing one hell of a job.
You guys like to bitch about map size, mod size and any other big file that we present you with. Leaving us to attempt to please you with artifact heavy maps that look like shit when compared to a 1 to 1 ratio. BUT NO, YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH A 30 MEG DOWNLOAD. YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM DOWNLOADING 4 GIGS OF GOAT PORN OR THE LATEST GREATEST DEMO THAT JOE BLOW SOFTWARE COMPANY PUTS OUT... AND THEN YOU FUCKING COMPLAIN BECAUSE THINGS AREN'T DETAILED ENOUGH!!!
You have all had your turn at flaming me and the other mappers in this... heh, community. THis is my turn. You have no idea how much time we spend on this crap, ALL FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT! I have spent as many as 3 weeks on 1 map before. I know Runecrafter spends possibly moths on his. I don't even get to play spring most weeknights because I'm mapping. Rendering, converting, laying down individual textures here and there, and compiling, TAKES A LONG TIME!
Funny thing, look in the thread on this forum about connection speeds. We have 4 votes for low speed internet.
You guys are hypocrites, and I'm calling all of you on it. From now on, if I post a map I will be doing the flaming. I am tired of me and other GOOD mappers getting flamed for our work. If you don't like it then go hump a tree or post something Constructive. Your choice.
People like you drive good people away from the game because of your shitty attitudes.
I assume other mappers will rise up with me in this, maybe the modders and models will too. Maybe I will take my stand alone. Either way what I have stated is the truth. If you don't like it, eat shit.
DISCLAIMER:
This post is directed towards the myriads of dysfunctional idiots that browse these forums. If you happen to be one of the nice people that play this game, maybe you could put in some words as well. If you ARE the occasional nice person, this post is not directed at you, so take no offense.
BTW, when is the last time anyone said thank you to the sy's, zaphod and anyone else that works on the core of this game?
Never have I seen it. I for one thank the developers for all the hard work, done on spring. I can't wait to see spring a year from now with the leaps and bounds we will have gone.
Community...
Moderator: Moderators
Wow...Anyway I agree with Forboding Angel and his severe dislike of people who post negative comments that only bring down others trying to contribute. I don't like those people. I'll give an example. In FoeoftheBee's post "Balance by Design" there were a couple individuals who did nothing but say how pointless and/or impossible it was to make a formula for balance. They didn't do anything besides hijack the post and turn it into a flame. I've seen this happen on many different posts too, especially balance threads.
Don't anyone dare start that in this post.
I'd just like the flamers and negative posters shut up.
DUDE, you are right on the damn mark. I swear to CHRIST, I do not KNOW the last time I have read a THANK YOU that was not followed with at least 3 derisive comments. I do not know what the problem is, many people on this site are some of the most ungrateful talentless ingrates I have seen on ANY FORUM!
I mean Jesus, currently 9% of the community is on a low speed connection. Where as the other 91%(46 people) are on a high speed connection. So far that is 52 out of over 140 people, I am CERTAIN that the ratio is going to remain about the same. So are we letting these 9% of the people reduce the quality of the maps and mods that will be uploaded for us. We are going to take the work that the mappers have spent days if not weeks and then ask them to run a harsh compression algorithm that will tear apart the beautiful work they slaved away on because people do not want to dowload 30 megs! I have said it already but it is worth repeating... full metal jacket would be an awful movie if they used rubber band guns instead of actual realistic props.
Also as far as modeling goes Caydr has already proven that we can have HUGE numbers of polies on the models yet people who do not know ANYTHING about modeling will GRIPE and COMPLAIN about a model's poly count. I swear if you do not know how to model DO NOT proceed to complain about poly count. Critique on actual aesthetics but do not be so arrogant as to lecture a modeler about it technical aspects!
The people who have busted their humps to bring us this WONDERFUL and FREE beta. Seldom hear positive accolades about their work. I have to give it up to them this is a wonderful game and we are LUCKY to have it for free. Yet, I do not see alot of you offering a hand, so how many of you people just leach!?!?
I do not understand the way this works, typically a smaller community is closer knit and they are not as likely to attack people within the community. Instead it is directly the opposite with these people, I do not know HOW SY is able to keep a positive attitude with all of this negativity. I do not know why they have not stopped releasing the game versions.
It is not that I am overly sensitive but it we continue to allow these "people"(read:NEGATIVE leaches) to rule over this community then this place will go to hell! Please, those of you who can actually do care about this place and these contributors SPEAK UP.
SO THANK YOU THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE GIVEN TO US! Thank you to the mappers who have actually spent the time to make GOOD MAPS. Thank you to THE MODERS! Thank YOU TO THE GUI PEOPLE! THANK YOU TO THE SYs!
THANK YOU TO ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS!
AND TO ALL THE LEACHES I HOPE YOU LEACH A FILE AND YOUR ENTIRE MACHINE IS INFECTED!
I mean Jesus, currently 9% of the community is on a low speed connection. Where as the other 91%(46 people) are on a high speed connection. So far that is 52 out of over 140 people, I am CERTAIN that the ratio is going to remain about the same. So are we letting these 9% of the people reduce the quality of the maps and mods that will be uploaded for us. We are going to take the work that the mappers have spent days if not weeks and then ask them to run a harsh compression algorithm that will tear apart the beautiful work they slaved away on because people do not want to dowload 30 megs! I have said it already but it is worth repeating... full metal jacket would be an awful movie if they used rubber band guns instead of actual realistic props.
Also as far as modeling goes Caydr has already proven that we can have HUGE numbers of polies on the models yet people who do not know ANYTHING about modeling will GRIPE and COMPLAIN about a model's poly count. I swear if you do not know how to model DO NOT proceed to complain about poly count. Critique on actual aesthetics but do not be so arrogant as to lecture a modeler about it technical aspects!
The people who have busted their humps to bring us this WONDERFUL and FREE beta. Seldom hear positive accolades about their work. I have to give it up to them this is a wonderful game and we are LUCKY to have it for free. Yet, I do not see alot of you offering a hand, so how many of you people just leach!?!?
I do not understand the way this works, typically a smaller community is closer knit and they are not as likely to attack people within the community. Instead it is directly the opposite with these people, I do not know HOW SY is able to keep a positive attitude with all of this negativity. I do not know why they have not stopped releasing the game versions.
It is not that I am overly sensitive but it we continue to allow these "people"(read:NEGATIVE leaches) to rule over this community then this place will go to hell! Please, those of you who can actually do care about this place and these contributors SPEAK UP.
SO THANK YOU THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE GIVEN TO US! Thank you to the mappers who have actually spent the time to make GOOD MAPS. Thank you to THE MODERS! Thank YOU TO THE GUI PEOPLE! THANK YOU TO THE SYs!
THANK YOU TO ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS!
AND TO ALL THE LEACHES I HOPE YOU LEACH A FILE AND YOUR ENTIRE MACHINE IS INFECTED!
Last edited by smoth on 19 Jan 2006, 08:22, edited 1 time in total.
I don't really know where in you blog post I should stand.
I agree on your statement: He who does not appreciate the devs BURN.
(This statement will be in essence widely agreed, seeing that there are few people who don't appreciate the devs. Those are the same people who doesn't know anything about this project)
However, you described posters why doesn't use constrcutive critics and who start flame wars about it.
The most nonconstructive feedback I read here, are people who say: "I like it, and play it many times". So they don't mention the reasons why he/she likes it. But why turn down positive voices? As for people who say: "This map stinks! It's 30 MB and it still looks bad". Those are people who doesn't know anything about mapping and should/are ignored (or punched in the ground).
Who doesn't thank the SY's, Zaphod, mappers, modders, porters (they are called that way?), and all other people who devoted time in this game. But they down't start new topics about that. If there is moment for the community to thank people. They do so (note the 'New lead programmer' topic of SJ). Most people thank the dev when they play spring and enjoy it. And mostly nonverbally.
Edit: Yes FA's post can be quite offensive, and will start a flame war, as bad as the 'Spring needs better graphics' topic. Let's hope something good comes out.
I've took my time for this post. However, if you are the one feeling offended now, I know you don't hasertate to let me know
I agree on your statement: He who does not appreciate the devs BURN.
(This statement will be in essence widely agreed, seeing that there are few people who don't appreciate the devs. Those are the same people who doesn't know anything about this project)
However, you described posters why doesn't use constrcutive critics and who start flame wars about it.
The most nonconstructive feedback I read here, are people who say: "I like it, and play it many times". So they don't mention the reasons why he/she likes it. But why turn down positive voices? As for people who say: "This map stinks! It's 30 MB and it still looks bad". Those are people who doesn't know anything about mapping and should/are ignored (or punched in the ground).
Who doesn't thank the SY's, Zaphod, mappers, modders, porters (they are called that way?), and all other people who devoted time in this game. But they down't start new topics about that. If there is moment for the community to thank people. They do so (note the 'New lead programmer' topic of SJ). Most people thank the dev when they play spring and enjoy it. And mostly nonverbally.
Edit: Yes FA's post can be quite offensive, and will start a flame war, as bad as the 'Spring needs better graphics' topic. Let's hope something good comes out.
I've took my time for this post. However, if you are the one feeling offended now, I know you don't hasertate to let me know
Last edited by Zenka on 19 Jan 2006, 08:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Edit: the below was thrown at Targon
Are you being sardonic or serious?
If you are being serious, then screw you. This isn't about your feelings. It's about the people THAT ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING FOR THE COMMUNITY getting the respect they deserve. When I start getting my paycheck then you can bitch as me. Until then, go hump a tree.
@ zenka: I understand what you are saying and it is appreciated dude.
Are you being sardonic or serious?
If you are being serious, then screw you. This isn't about your feelings. It's about the people THAT ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING FOR THE COMMUNITY getting the respect they deserve. When I start getting my paycheck then you can bitch as me. Until then, go hump a tree.
@ zenka: I understand what you are saying and it is appreciated dude.
Last edited by Forboding Angel on 19 Jan 2006, 08:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I talk with/listen to Forboding, smoth, Decimator, Caydr and several others on ts and to hear them complain about a compiling cycle for a map or somthing like that u realize the amount of effort they put into this. And if u don't believe what forboding is saying go look through some posts in the modding or mapping forums ull find that he hit the nail on the fucking head with this post. and while i really have no skills to offer other than being a bastard about organization (hence my involvement in the Epic 40,000 thread) , i still feel that people need to just deal with that fact that if they don't do it themsleves (and by, it, i mean makin maps, mods, etc.) then it won't be exactly the way they fucking want it.
i hope and pray that this community bounces out of this "must keep filesize low" mentality and truly lets loose and makes high poly models, huge complicated-ass maps, and mods that break from the usual formula.
but hey what do i know i just play these games for fun
And to all the leaches who are here as one stop on their never-ending journey for the latest freeware: MOVE ON AND LEAVE THE REAL PLAYERS ALONE
i hope and pray that this community bounces out of this "must keep filesize low" mentality and truly lets loose and makes high poly models, huge complicated-ass maps, and mods that break from the usual formula.
but hey what do i know i just play these games for fun
And to all the leaches who are here as one stop on their never-ending journey for the latest freeware: MOVE ON AND LEAVE THE REAL PLAYERS ALONE
Last edited by j5mello on 19 Jan 2006, 21:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Anyway, just to be sure there's no misunderstandings, my post was joking. Your vent is perfectly justified and I support it, I've seen the posts that go on here and some of them seem uncalled for (i remember some guy posted a model and was followed by 5 posts calling him noobish for high polycount and blah blah blah). But it's not fair to go attacking the entire user base. (not saying you are)
Anyway, just my random opinion on a slowish connection, big files are OK, I just want to be able to download it without too throwing away 6 hours for a corrupt download.
Anyway, just my random opinion on a slowish connection, big files are OK, I just want to be able to download it without too throwing away 6 hours for a corrupt download.
Yhe... and if i remeber correctly, they were slaging of his inabilty to write english to... WHEN HE WAS FRENCH. I mean... come on people.
Forboding Angel I, as you probablie know, totaly agree with you. Theres to many people that slag of something there ghetting for free.
Now, I don't mind the leaches having stuff for free... None of us do. We just can't stand the ones that want it for free, AND feel they have some sort of right to complain when its not what THEY want, or if it doesn't appar quick enough, or if its too big. Those are the annoying people.
So leaches, leach away, I'm happy to give you stuff like everyone else is, BUT QUIT WHINING.
Seem's I said exatly this teh other day in another thread...
aGorm
Forboding Angel I, as you probablie know, totaly agree with you. Theres to many people that slag of something there ghetting for free.
Now, I don't mind the leaches having stuff for free... None of us do. We just can't stand the ones that want it for free, AND feel they have some sort of right to complain when its not what THEY want, or if it doesn't appar quick enough, or if its too big. Those are the annoying people.
So leaches, leach away, I'm happy to give you stuff like everyone else is, BUT QUIT WHINING.
Seem's I said exatly this teh other day in another thread...
aGorm
*sigh*
The whole point of the map size issue is that with correct utilisation of the tiling system you can have a small AND good looking map. Just ramping up the compression factor is NOT what we are suggesting. We are suggesting that mappers use the format to its maximum advantage, that's all.
As for the balance-by-formula thing, its simply the wisdom of the older TA community, we've seen it tried and fail many times.
We just want the game to be enjoyable by as many people as possible.
The whole point of the map size issue is that with correct utilisation of the tiling system you can have a small AND good looking map. Just ramping up the compression factor is NOT what we are suggesting. We are suggesting that mappers use the format to its maximum advantage, that's all.
As for the balance-by-formula thing, its simply the wisdom of the older TA community, we've seen it tried and fail many times.
We just want the game to be enjoyable by as many people as possible.
Thankyou posts are pretty common, actually.
As for mapping posts, well..you have to admit, there ARE a lot of not-so-good maps, and they far outnumber the good ones. Yeah, its no excuse to be openly hostile as soon as you see a map, but I think that some folks (W. Z, Zwsgs, ect) are veterans of a mapping community that used to pump out maps like no tomorrow, and so giving quick feedback and initial responses (even just from the minimap/screens) was the only way to keep up.
Honestly, I don't think this community is any worse than other public communities around the net. Probably a little better, since generally when people have a comment, its either pointless/funny, or constructive in some way. There are, of course, a fair few exceptions to that rule, but I don't think the Spring community is especially bad. At all.
Hell, the game I used to play all the time, Wulfram II, has a lone dev who runs the game, and has been running it for ~7 years. He gets bitched at every day for everything he does - talk about ungrateful.
No worries though, Zaphod, Buggi, SYs, and all those working on the linux port (Chris Han, ect) are doing a fantastic job..some of the hints zaphod and co have dropped sound amazing (Am I the only one who can't wait to see a 4000x4000 map? @_@!).
All your work is much appreciated.
As for mapping posts, well..you have to admit, there ARE a lot of not-so-good maps, and they far outnumber the good ones. Yeah, its no excuse to be openly hostile as soon as you see a map, but I think that some folks (W. Z, Zwsgs, ect) are veterans of a mapping community that used to pump out maps like no tomorrow, and so giving quick feedback and initial responses (even just from the minimap/screens) was the only way to keep up.
Honestly, I don't think this community is any worse than other public communities around the net. Probably a little better, since generally when people have a comment, its either pointless/funny, or constructive in some way. There are, of course, a fair few exceptions to that rule, but I don't think the Spring community is especially bad. At all.
Hell, the game I used to play all the time, Wulfram II, has a lone dev who runs the game, and has been running it for ~7 years. He gets bitched at every day for everything he does - talk about ungrateful.
No worries though, Zaphod, Buggi, SYs, and all those working on the linux port (Chris Han, ect) are doing a fantastic job..some of the hints zaphod and co have dropped sound amazing (Am I the only one who can't wait to see a 4000x4000 map? @_@!).
All your work is much appreciated.
Too true... the only map I made that I don't realy like is Desurt Dunes, but its the only one people play because I got the metal wrong (IE almost metal map like) due to me not being able to run spring at the time...
That Sux...
Thats a little off topic aswell... (But hay this seems like the thread to whine in)
aGorm
That Sux...
Thats a little off topic aswell... (But hay this seems like the thread to whine in)
aGorm