Painted Badlands

[qray]

After all the updating of maps, here's a new one. Wanted to try the the new Detail Normal Texture Splatting.

Link to Springfiles

Inspired by Painted Desert. Probably works for 3v3 up to 5v5. Includes the option to adjust the water level in 3 steps from dry to flooded (+ other usual map options from the blueprint).

Credits:
Features by Noize and Smoth, skyboxes by Smoth and Beherith, detail texes from Nobiax texture pack. Volumetric Clouds shader widget by Anarchid.

[Silentwings]

Looks pretty - I wonder if the height based colouring could have a bit more randomness added into it, so as the white bands vary in height as you follow them.

[qray]

Basic texturing was done with Springmapedit that doesn't allow for this

But also the real painted desert has rather straight color bands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pain ... _700px.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 1d448b.jpg
http://www.emmanuelcoupe.com/photo/old- ... izona-usa/

[eronoobos]

<3

[Forboding Angel]

[Beherith]

Great map work, I just feel that the lighting is quite off. The original lighting is:

Code: Select all

		--// unit & ground lighting
		groundAmbientColor  = {0.70, 0.65, 0.65},
 		groundDiffuseColor  = {0.6, 0.55, 0.34},
		groundSpecularColor = {0.0001, 0.0001, 0.0001},
		groundShadowDensity = 0.4,
		unitAmbientColor    = {0.53, 0.49, 0.49},
		unitDiffuseColor    = {0.53, 0.49, 0.49},
		unitSpecularColor   = {0.7, 0.6, 0.6},
		unitShadowDensity   = 0.5,

Both unit and groundambient should be around 0.3, as that defines the brightness of completely shadowed areas.
The shadow densities are better at [0.7,1.0], and the diffuse gets added to the ambient.

For example:

Code: Select all

		groundAmbientColor  = {.4, .4, .45},
		groundDiffuseColor  = {1.0, .9, .9},
		groundSpecularColor = {0,0,0},
		groundShadowDensity = 1.0,
		unitAmbientColor    = {.3, .35, .4},
		unitDiffuseColor    = {1.0, 0.93, 0.80},
		unitSpecularColor   = {.9, .9, .9},
		unitShadowDensity   = 0.8,
		specularExponent    = 95,

[qray]

... I just feel that the lighting is quite off.
...
Both unit and groundambient should be around 0.3, as that defines the brightness of completely shadowed areas.
The shadow densities are better at [0.7,1.0], and the diffuse gets added to the ambient.

Thanks for the tip! I have to admit, that I didn't pay too much attention to this and just copied the section from another map. Will test your settings in the next days.

I anyway noticed that water changed in the newer spring versions > 100. Somehow I tested the the flooded option during development only with the 100 spring. And with 102-RC1 water colour is quite different and not what I had in mind.

The old rule applies again: no map from me stays at v1.0

[qray]

OK, trying your suggested lightning values made clear why

But now the white is extremely bright, so I have to adjust at other places (diffuse, maybe a bit sun colour). Also specularity was a bit high at some places, but toning down specularExponent helped there a bit.

And the new values helped me seeing a strange effect:

I already wondered, why I had to make the textures for the features (from the spring-features 1.0) very bright for them to look halfway decent.
But with the new shadow settings, it is well visible that they have their shadows on the wrong side (upside down).
Since I have no clue about the technical side of features: what could be the cause and how to fix this?

[Forboding Angel]

Spring features is on version 1.6, I highly suggest you switch to using that version.

Code: Select all

depend      = {"Map Helper v1", "Spring Features v1.6"},

[qray]

I tried to download the 1.6 version, but to no success so far. Somehow, since for testing wildly switching between springlobby versions -including non-released ones-, this doesn't work anymore here Still investigating how to fix this...

So I looked here:
http://api.springfiles.com/?springname= ... &category=
but there it only lists the feature placer.

Is there another way to easily download a package with the latest version of spring-features?

The features are from noize, lua and objects files pdrock[1-8].[lua/s3o], textures pdrock1sphere.dds and pdrock[2-4].dds.
Do you by chance happen to know if these features were fixed/worked on? If they weren't updated it's anyway a moo point downloading the latest spring-features version...

[qray]

Is there another way to easily download a package with the latest version of spring-features?

[Solved] just saw that spring-features is on github

EDIT: But also the features from the new version show the same problem

[Forboding Angel]

Spring features is on rapid. Get it that way.

What rocks are those? Noize? Last time I looked they were fine, I'll look again when I get home.

[qray]

What rocks are those? Noize? Last time I looked they were fine, I'll look again when I get home.

Yes, from Noize. Detailed list of files a few posts above.

With the original texture it's not so obvious, since this is already on the darker side. But I also tested with the original texture and also there the shadows are on the opposite side.

Thanks for having a look



-----------------------------------------
EDIT:
Just for completeness here's a screenshot with the original texture:

If you look from another side and don't know which texture to expect, you could easily overlook the shadow problem since texture from above looks okay (just darker than the texture file).

[Forboding Angel]

I don't think that the original texture was dds. Someone likely converted it and didn't flip the UVs.

If that's the case I'll push out a 1.7. I'm testing right now.

Edit: Yep, that was it. I'm pushing v1.7 in a few minutes. Thanks for spotting that. Let me know if you run across any other weird things like that.

[Forboding Angel]

1.7 is on rapid.

[qray]

Thanks for the update!

Unfortunately, even with the new version it still looks the same here
To make sure, I tried both with the dependency on spring-features 1.7 and with copying the new s3o files (and the rest) directly from the repository into the map (removing the dependency). But still the same effect.

[Forboding Angel]

Edit, I didn't see your entire post. Putting mine in storage till I can verify.

[Forboding Angel]

Turns out spring features was fine all along (Which is why SF is now on v1.8... I had to go back and fix what I had done before). I'm guessing that whatever mod you're using to test this, has a dependency on an ass old version of Spring Features. Your inclusion of the feature files themselves instead of just the map dependency complicated matters as well.

Use SF as a dependency. Only include files in your map of things you want to change, like defs or textures, hell even models, but if they match what is in SF, let SF do the work because if a problem arises with features and maps depend on SF, we can fix all of the issues in one single place, instead of each individual map having to be fixed.

Here is a fixed version of your map:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B25BbZ ... sp=sharing

I tested it in Metal Factions simply because I know that game has no odd dependencies.

[qray]

I don't get it. On the one hand you say use spring-features as dependency and that it makes problems if I don't. On the other hand, you say I could include in the map "defs or textures, hell even models", since they override the spring-features files.
Which is how I always understood it: stuff included in the map overrides stuff from dependencies. So I don't see any problem with my approach, or am I missing something?

I'm guessing that whatever mod you're using to test this, has a dependency on an ass old version of Spring Features. Your inclusion of the feature files themselves instead of just the map dependency complicated matters as well.

I tested with BA 9.33 and 9.35. In both I don't spot any dependency on spring-features. Even if they had, how does this complicate matters? (see question above)
Just trying to understand your argument.

I tested it in Metal Factions simply because I know that game has no odd dependencies.

To rule out anything, I also tested with Metal Factions (see screenshots below). Same effect as before

Here is a fixed version of your map:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B25BbZ ... sp=sharing

AFAICS, you only threw out the models and added the dependency. That's what I had also tested before. With the old lightning settings -which are in your map version- the effect is barely visible. If I apply the ones suggested by Beherith that increase shadows, it still seems to me the lower side is brighter than the upper.
Screenshot made with Metal Factions and your map version using spring-features v1.8 dependency and lightning following Beheriths suggestion. Using FPS camera looking from "north" to "south" (since sun comes a bit from "south" shadow effect are best visible from there).

If I then add my adjusted textures it becomes more visible:


-----
Different topic:

Use SF as a dependency. Only include files in your map of things you want to change, like defs or textures, hell even models, but if they match what is in SF, let SF do the work because if a problem arises with features and maps depend on SF, we can fix all of the issues in one single place, instead of each individual map having to be fixed.

To avoid misunderstanding: I see your point and I agree with your arguments regarding spring-features dependency. So I totally understand why you promote this approach and I followed many discussions regarding this topic in this forum.

In reality, it unfortunately doesn't work for me, since there are always players on the host for which the automatic dependency download doesn't work for whatever reason: different lobbies in different versions, whatever, probably a long list. Usually, there's is also a reason why they use this or that version of a lobby.
And going through "update your lobby to this or that" or "download spring-features manually doing..." does not work. Answer is always: "too difficult"/"too much work"/"takes too much time now"-> "play another map instead". With hundreds of maps next to the one that makes problems for someone, it's obvious. That's why for example I unfortunately never had the chance to play your Akilon Wastelands map, which is BTW very pretty and looks like it would play nice.
So I decided for my maps not to use dependencies, since they should work for everybody I play with.

[Beherith]

A couple of things i have notice: the rocks have null-normals, didnt you get a warning about that in infolog? You can fix them in upspring with recalculate vertex normals.

The rocks have a tex2 defined (tex2.png), which is not present in archive. I suggest making one by mashing the black and white part of the color texture into the green channel of a fully black RGBA image, at a relateively low average brightness (Green = [0,64]). Also remember to set the entire alpha to 255, or it will be considered transparent.

There is an actual UV seam present on the rocks, this is a result of rather shoddy texturing. If you feel you are comfortable with wings3d, you can try my obj2s3o converter to load the files in wings3d. http://imolarpg.dyndns.org/trac/balates ... gObjModels

EDIT: i solved 1 and 2 for you, attached