Lately I have had the displeaseure of playing with a lot of agressive comm users. Comm ends does not solve the problem (not very wwell anyway).
My question is this: What can we change about comms that will make them more of a tool than a super mech?
Discussion about comms
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Forboding Angel
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
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I'm talking in general.
Think about it for a bit. I'm talking about the guys that rush into your defence line and dgun away. The guys that set up a forward base next to your's near a bottleneck.
You either lose your comm or the game or both. The comm explosion is one think that is irritating. 2 llts are really annoying when they are guarded by a comm within the first 3 - 5 minutes.
And anyone that has played me will tell you that I'm a rusher, but anyone that know how to use a comm can defeat a rush easily.
I'm sure someone understand what I'm trying to say...
Think about it for a bit. I'm talking about the guys that rush into your defence line and dgun away. The guys that set up a forward base next to your's near a bottleneck.
You either lose your comm or the game or both. The comm explosion is one think that is irritating. 2 llts are really annoying when they are guarded by a comm within the first 3 - 5 minutes.
And anyone that has played me will tell you that I'm a rusher, but anyone that know how to use a comm can defeat a rush easily.
I'm sure someone understand what I'm trying to say...
Play AA and set up an HLT or a handful of LLTs. HLT especially. About 8 hits from an HLT will flatten a commander.
I can see what you mean though - I've been unfortunate enough to be in a game or two where a commander is used as a one-man-army, basically just camping outside my base and killing everything I sent against him... but I realized I was countering this the wrong way.
Rather than attacking the commander and dying, I send my guys around the back way and attacked his base. A couple LLTs were set up, but they were no trouble for my dozen rockos/hammers. His entire base was flattened, he pulled a hasty retreat with his commander but was unable to stop me from basically setting him back into the stone age with no metal and energy income, making d-gunning impossible. One dead commander later, I win
If a guy is using his commander as an anti-everything at a metal-rich point of the map, odds are he's left his back door open - in this case, his base. I'd recommend some agressive scouting to find his weak point, because there's no way he could defend everything when he's being stretched so thin, even when he controls the metal-rich part of the map. In another case, maybe he doesn't pull his commander back but considers his base a writeoff, starts building a new one in his super-rich part of the map. Well, you build metal extractors everywhere ELSE, or concentrate on building a guardian somewhere in range of his base but where you can protect it.
I can see what you mean though - I've been unfortunate enough to be in a game or two where a commander is used as a one-man-army, basically just camping outside my base and killing everything I sent against him... but I realized I was countering this the wrong way.
Rather than attacking the commander and dying, I send my guys around the back way and attacked his base. A couple LLTs were set up, but they were no trouble for my dozen rockos/hammers. His entire base was flattened, he pulled a hasty retreat with his commander but was unable to stop me from basically setting him back into the stone age with no metal and energy income, making d-gunning impossible. One dead commander later, I win
If a guy is using his commander as an anti-everything at a metal-rich point of the map, odds are he's left his back door open - in this case, his base. I'd recommend some agressive scouting to find his weak point, because there's no way he could defend everything when he's being stretched so thin, even when he controls the metal-rich part of the map. In another case, maybe he doesn't pull his commander back but considers his base a writeoff, starts building a new one in his super-rich part of the map. Well, you build metal extractors everywhere ELSE, or concentrate on building a guardian somewhere in range of his base but where you can protect it.
Last edited by Caydr on 19 Dec 2005, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
play a big open map. comet is best. strategy rules the day, tactics are useful too, best map IMO.
coms are not even that good, split ur rushers. if his com sits with 2 LLTs guarding his base use urs to get a crackin' econ going and own him with artillery or lvl 2 (remember to bring seer's along to the party to spot cloaked coms)...or go around him (altho u have to play a map like comet to do this.
then again i am a bit biased since all i play is that map ^-^
coms are not even that good, split ur rushers. if his com sits with 2 LLTs guarding his base use urs to get a crackin' econ going and own him with artillery or lvl 2 (remember to bring seer's along to the party to spot cloaked coms)...or go around him (altho u have to play a map like comet to do this.
then again i am a bit biased since all i play is that map ^-^
noo!
dgun is hard to use early game as it is! AA is all about e x,x im improving kind of but please plesae please DON'T MESS WITH THE DGUN. one idiot complaining isn't really asking to change the whole system. besides in AA everything is supposeed to be counterable...how do u counter a raider swarm if the Dgun is expensive and slow and its early game?
dgun is hard to use early game as it is! AA is all about e x,x im improving kind of but please plesae please DON'T MESS WITH THE DGUN. one idiot complaining isn't really asking to change the whole system. besides in AA everything is supposeed to be counterable...how do u counter a raider swarm if the Dgun is expensive and slow and its early game?
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Forboding Angel
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Idiot?
piss off dude. You've never played me. Some time you and a teammate should take on me and drex. It would be fun. Piss off. Stop crying about the possiblity of something being changed, especially if it's for the better.
Actually the particular instance was on a small map with very well thought out metal placement.
I'm simply tired of this happening. I set up forward bases with my comm as well, but I know how my opponent feels.
I feel that this degrades gameplay. One topic that was suggested to me was changing the comm explosion to a small one, increaseing the comms capture rate by 2x and giving him a very fast firing hlt laser (which btw would be more effective vs rushes imo (that one's up for debate).
Keep in mind, I don't care too much if anything gets changed or not, but it's starting to stick out like a sore thumb in spring. I'm simply expressing some views (not all of them are mine) that might be worth some debate.
piss off dude. You've never played me. Some time you and a teammate should take on me and drex. It would be fun. Piss off. Stop crying about the possiblity of something being changed, especially if it's for the better.
Actually the particular instance was on a small map with very well thought out metal placement.
I'm simply tired of this happening. I set up forward bases with my comm as well, but I know how my opponent feels.
I feel that this degrades gameplay. One topic that was suggested to me was changing the comm explosion to a small one, increaseing the comms capture rate by 2x and giving him a very fast firing hlt laser (which btw would be more effective vs rushes imo (that one's up for debate).
Keep in mind, I don't care too much if anything gets changed or not, but it's starting to stick out like a sore thumb in spring. I'm simply expressing some views (not all of them are mine) that might be worth some debate.
I've been seeing this too. Many times on smaller maps their commander is knocking on your door with an army of plasma and rocket kbots. Sending your army after their base is not an option as they will just walk into your base and kill everything. And you can't attack their army because the comm will just dgun whatever you send. Meanwhile they start setting up punishers in range of your base and there's not a thing you can do about it. (I play AA almost exclusively)
This is the reason I have come to dislike small, open maps. They are too prone to this sort of situation. Large maps, or rough maps like nightscape do not have this problem.
I'm don't know if we need a comm change, I just wish we had more good large maps.
This is the reason I have come to dislike small, open maps. They are too prone to this sort of situation. Large maps, or rough maps like nightscape do not have this problem.
I'm don't know if we need a comm change, I just wish we had more good large maps.
We could try and make the commander move more slowly, so that all but the slowest units can run away from his d-gun, or reduce the range of the d-gun.
Take away the nuke like explosion and take away the d-gun completely, rush defence would have to be done by your units, thats also an option.
You can not just say that you have to play large maps to overcome the comm-bombing and offensive d-gunning.
ut maybe the problem is something more oriented to the play-style of the defender. Maybe people porc too much or too badly, so they are prone to comm-rushing. A dozen of rocket-bots can take down a coomander if used well.
What would also be good, would be if the option to limit the d-gun would actually work.
Take away the nuke like explosion and take away the d-gun completely, rush defence would have to be done by your units, thats also an option.
You can not just say that you have to play large maps to overcome the comm-bombing and offensive d-gunning.
ut maybe the problem is something more oriented to the play-style of the defender. Maybe people porc too much or too badly, so they are prone to comm-rushing. A dozen of rocket-bots can take down a coomander if used well.
What would also be good, would be if the option to limit the d-gun would actually work.
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Doomweaver
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Make his laser more powerful, and make the d-gun cost 1000 energy. But personally I find comrushing impossible, because in the latest versions the D-Gun has become really unresponsive, with the commander constantly using his laser even when I tell him to attack the enemy or ground near the enemy with his D-Gun.
Glad to know I'm not the only one with that problem. Frequently I'll be losing a defensive battle (while having ample energy) so I'll bring up the comm for a quick hit-and-run to d-gun the nearest clutch of enemies and.... wait. What was supposed to be a simple hit-and-run ends up being my commander sitting around jerking off while the artillery rains on his head.Doomweaver wrote:Make his laser more powerful, and make the d-gun cost 1000 energy. But personally I find comrushing impossible, because in the latest versions the D-Gun has become really unresponsive, with the commander constantly using his laser even when I tell him to attack the enemy or ground near the enemy with his D-Gun.
Then, of course, he blows up and takes out my defensive line.
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Forboding Angel
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Acully, thats why we have "limit d-gun to start position". This will stop this from happening. This works extremly well. I remebear when we tryed to hold our side of the middle on Small divide, and i rushed my com to their "soon to be " HLT. Well, the fucker haden't even told that it was on, so great suprise for me when i finaly got there and my com would fire and he surronded me with his peewees. Now this wasen't very far from start location so...Decimator wrote:I've been seeing this too. Many times on smaller maps their commander is knocking on your door with an army of plasma and rocket kbots. Sending your army after their base is not an option as they will just walk into your base and kill everything. And you can't attack their army because the comm will just dgun whatever you send. Meanwhile they start setting up punishers in range of your base and there's not a thing you can do about it. (I play AA almost exclusively)
This is the reason I have come to dislike small, open maps. They are too prone to this sort of situation. Large maps, or rough maps like nightscape do not have this problem.
I'm don't know if we need a comm change, I just wish we had more good large maps.
If you really think commander are overpowerd, play Com end AND No d-gun from startposition. Presto, you can only use your commander in your base, AND if he dies, you lose. Witch means that he can't leave the base, witch means no forwarded bases, no com bombs, no nothing.
Problem solved?
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Forboding Angel
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I know something you dont know yet. Let me tell you.Kixxe wrote: If you really think commander are overpowerd, play Com end AND No d-gun from startposition. Presto, you can only use your commander in your base, AND if he dies, you lose. Witch means that he can't leave the base, witch means no forwarded bases, no com bombs, no nothing.
Problem solved?
Enable D-Gun limited to start. Move the commander out of your base.
Select the commander and enter FPS-Mode.
Fire the D-Gun with your left mouse-button and annihalate all unsuspecting noobs who dont know about that issue .