engine installer should block installing over old install

[knorke]

Players install new spring versions into same folder as existing install = problems.
Installer should prevent that (check if folder is empty or something)

[Silentwings]

+1, People doing this have been causing themselves trouble for as long as I can remember, even before the transition to new folder structure.

I suggest making the default isntall dir end with e.g. /Spring95 or /Spring95.0.1-1001-aabbccddee so as it naturally goes into its own dir.

[smoth]

how will this work with files that are not in userland?

as in spring/maps/?

The current directory structure imo would need to change to something like

spring/versionnumber/new files
spring/maps
spring/mods

etc

because portable installs make spring for lans super easy and it is how I have always run spring.

[abma]

(edit: i hope its understandable, my post is a bit messed )

imo only clean solution would be that the installer only installs a lobby.

zero-k lobby isn't "neutral" and springlobby isn't ready yet. someone could comply: "how to play offline?" -> install lobby, download needed stuff, play offline. current installer also doesn't install everything needed to play.

maybe config files should be versioned as well, but atm i prefer the goal of having just a lobby to install.

the current transition from 94.1 to 95.0 has/had the problem that 94.1 created %APPDATA%\Local\springsettings.cfg and 95.0 still reads that file but writes to My Games/Spring/springsettings.cfg. not sure why the 94.1 config is read, jk can answer i guess.

current released springlobby version has the bug that it writes to the %APPDATA% path.

blocking overwriting the existing installation wouldn't have solved this, as the file in %APPDATA% isn't touched by the installer, its created by spring 94.1 when run the first time.

[varikonniemi]

not sure why the 94.1 config is read, jk can answer i guess.

I have no idea if my objections to dropping the backwards compatibility had any sway in the matter, but if it had i must say it was implemented wrongly. My proposition was to read the old config, and apply it only if a new config is not found.

[knorke]

There are other reason than just config.
For example rapid (as in rapid.exe / rapid-gui.exe) was removed some time ago but sometimes people still ask about it in chat. ("why does it not work" etc)
Similiar with springsettings.exe
My guess would be that they still have that files from old versions.
Once everything is in one folder it is hard to tell what was contained in installer and what was already there and might be deprecated.

[jK]

but if it had i must say it was implemented wrongly

As far as I can tell it's not the engine's fault.
The problem is that SL doesn't ask the unitsync to get the engine's writedir.

[varikonniemi]

good. I was only going by what i gathered from abmas post.

[PepeAmpere]

If there is no difference for user of portable and "installed" spring (speed for example), i wonder some installer even exist.

For me such suggestions are just wasting of time, bringing another problems. Making nice portable pack of game + lobby of your dreams + widgets + maps is matter of few minutes. For major user base this is the best idiot-proof solution.

No neutral installer is needed. No maintainer and bugfixer is needed. No firewall/antivirus issues you can expect. From user you expect just ability to unpack downloaded stuff.

I would push all efforts to make it possible on Linux and MacOS and let classic installer die in hell.

If game wants better solutions, let them make own installer, like ZK, KP or NOTA did.

[jK]

For me such suggestions are just wasting of time, bringing another problems. Making nice portable pack of game + lobby of your dreams + widgets + maps is matter of few minutes. For major user base this is the best idiot-proof solution.

There are users who don't even know there are files, directories & an explorer. They just want to download something double-click it and get a shortcut on their desktop.

[PepeAmpere]

For me such suggestions are just wasting of time, bringing another problems. Making nice portable pack of game + lobby of your dreams + widgets + maps is matter of few minutes. For major user base this is the best idiot-proof solution.

There are users who don't even know there are files, directories & an explorer. They just want to download something double-click it and get a shortcut on their desktop.

I know, but such users get lost in our games UI, our games command system, our way of making games, or our complicated games with hundreds of units.

Main user base (who stay to play, not just try and fly away) are kind of experienced RTS players and i think such players have skill to unpack thing. Old installers are from times when 2% of world population was able to copy file from folder to folder.

[rattus]

Installing the same version twice on top of an old should not be a problem, so this thing solves itself if each version has its own directory.

Spring/engines/91.0
Spring/engines/95.0
Spring/maps
...?

IIRC ZKL already does something like this. So scrap the installer and let the lobby do the dirty work.

[Silentwings]

There are already svn versions of springlobby which can do that but afaik they are still being worked on & tested in other respects too. In fact you can already store all your data in /my games/spring/*** and it will be recognized by all your spring isntall.

Of course the installer can't be removed completely - in this case the egg has to come before the chicken.

[rattus]

Yeah, what I mean is that a lobby installer should be enough.

[Silentwings]

Not in general, because people play on lans or offline against bots, but I see what you are saying.

[Forboding Angel]

imo only clean solution would be that the installer only installs a lobby.

I completely agree.

[smoth]

I don't.

the lobbies confuse players when games don't use all their features/need extra ones.

[Silentwings]

I also don't agree, at least not yet, because afaik right now lobbies can't do what I want to do with missions (-> download a selection of sdz's & script.txts, then execute a specific script.txt without offering the user a choice of map).

[PepeAmpere]

some lobbies do, so pls dont dont spread propaganda

[Silentwings]

Propoganda? I didn't mention or have any particular lobby in mind. Maybe some can but most can't; the ones I would need to certainly can't. In any case, this discussion is about the engine installer and really only relates to SpringLobby.