EvoRTS needs your help!

[Forboding Angel]

That sounds a lot more dramatic than it really is. Basically the deal is, I need badly to switch all evo units over to using legos.

The reason for this is that the evo unit color scheme is confusing to a lot of people and so I want to make it much nicer. The only economical way for me to do that is to finish getting everything as legos. For an experience modeler, it's a piece of cake compared to normal jobs because you don't have to uv map, nor do you have to texture.

I have begun doing the models myself, but I'm extremely slow (and tbh I'm not very good either). This also has a side benefit. I want to release ALL models and artwork in evo to everyone to just use. Switching evo completely over to lego allows me to do that and even better yet, other projects would ahve unit templates where they can jsut kitbash their own lego models too. Hell I also have a pretty nice PSD (and smoth is working on an even better one) to where you'll be able to do a pretty awesome base skin with very little work. That's the idea anyway.

But suffice it to say, evo has a ton of models/textures that aren't doing anyone any good right now, so I really want to get those out in the open and push evo to a much brighter future.

What I need is over modelers to help me. You can kitbash from the lego set, or from the already completed evo units (I've been kitbashing form completed units myself as I'm too much of a hack to be able to do them from scratch with pieces). All I would need is a model file that I can pull into wings and set the uv mapping/coloring and stuff.

It's kind of a big project... well, to me it's a big project. Technically, as far as actual work is concerned, it's not that big of a thing, but I digress.

Attached are the lego parts and the most current skin that I'm using.

If you'd like to give me a hand, I would greatly appreciate it. I can post of screenies and stuff of the units that need to be redone. Recreation doesn't need to be exact, or even that close. Preferably designs that you don't mind staring at for extended periods of time in a game


Here is the texture that I am using for legos atm (subject to some changes). Green represents the teamcolor panel.

Texture:
https://evolutionrts.googlecode.com/svn ... iment2.png

Legos in wings file:
https://evolutionrts.googlecode.com/svn ... osv2.wings

Legos a la 3ds:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/download/file.php?id=4680

At the moment, I am working on the units in the hover factory. I have finished the hover factory itself and it is actually in objects3d, but I haven't scripted it yet and put it ingame (won't take more than a few moments to do).

About 60-75% of the units in EvoRTS already are legos. THis is an attempt to turn everything into legos, and release ALL models and textures for anyone to use for whatever project they like with no strings attached (even the models used in evo).

Evo has TONS of old models and textures that were evo specific. THe only reason I haven't released those yet is because they are so difficult to pick out from the ones that are still being used. This dilemma is silly. I wanna just get it all in legos and put it all out there for everyone to use.

Hovers that still need to be retextured (Keep in mind that hover means anti-grav in this case, not air-lifted):

Hovercraft (factory is already re-created via legos)
http://www.wiki.evolutionrts.info/doku. ... ft_factory

Engineer


ORB


Kite


Pyromaniac


Spas


Bruiser


Crusher


Fatso


Spewer


Droplet


Lobster


Shellshock (Hovering kamikaze bomb)



Any unit that you recreate using legos that gets used in evo will be renamed after you*

*in one form or another, as the "Google_Frog" wouldn't make much sense, so it might get called the "Frogger" or something like that. Also, this assumes that your name is not offensive.


Not only does this directly help me, it will also help other new projects using legos because not only will they have all the evo units to use and a templated texture to work with, they will also be able to kitbash by using all the existing lego units already created. I'm seeing a LOT of upsides here for new projects

Any and all help is hugely appreciated

WRT kitbashing, there are quite a few lego models in 3ds and wings format here: https://code.google.com/p/evolutionrts/ ... d%2Fkaiser
and they make kitbashing a lot easier.

[knorke]

Which models excactly?
Like a list of which models are not lego or considered ugly enought that they should be remade...

[Forboding Angel]

Oh ok. Well I was trying to keep it in hopefully easy to digest chunks, but as far as a full list, here goes.

I assume you don't mean actual unit names but those are what I'll write because that's what I know them best by. Hopefully that isn't an issue. If it is, I'll go into more detail on them.

39 total

Hover Factory (ebasefactory)
eengineer5
eorb
elighttank3
eflametank
eriottank2
emediumtank3
eheavytank3
efatso2
eaatank
emissiletank
eartytank
ebomb

Amphib Factory (eamphibfac)
eamphibengineer
eamphibbuggy
eamphibriot
eamphibmedtank
eamphibrock
eamphibarty

Aircraft Plant (eairplant)
eairengineer
edrone
escout
efighter
egunship2
ebomber
etransport

Buildings:
ebarricade
ejammer2
eradar2
elrpc
emaker
eshieldgen
esilo
estorage

Underwater buildings:
euwfusion2
euwmetalextractor
euwsolar2
euwstorage


Crap. Looking at it like that, it's a depressingly long list. However, once a model or two of each type is finished, I'll be kitbashing pretty hardcore. My problem is that I'm extremely bad when it comes to creating them from scratch.

Also, a lot of the buildings I plant on being able to kitbash together. If there is one thing I have plenty of lego examples with, it's buildings.

Was that what you were looking for? Or did I miss the point?

[FireStorm_]

ATM I feel super experienced in this. For instance: I didn't think the list is long. It would probably be a crime if I didn't try to bash something together, 2 or 3 or so. (It'd be a crime if I did too, cuz I'm super swamped, so its criminal either way )

But the sooner this is out of the way, the sooner I can steal away talent that might have worked on it, and put them to work on bar-art.

No time right now. But I'll let you know if/when I've picked something to work on (so no competition will arise with someone working in silence.)
no promises.

[Forboding Angel]

Hehe, I like your optimism :-D

For those of you wondering "Well why don't you just give up all the assets now?"

There are multiple reasons:
1. Evo is my priority, so I need to make sure that Evo gets done.
2. Motivation for newer gamemakers.

Think about it... With evo completely done, you will have a COMPLETE set of units that are free IP that you can use to make your own projects. The texture will be easy to modify, and there are some other super secret things afoot that will sweeten the pot even more.

Not to mention the ease of kitbashing when you have so many lego units to choose from.

So a big part of it is to just provide an incentive to help me out with this, as helping me effectively means helping yourself.

I do want to make this clear though... Evo will still have a No Derivatives license (without permission), but all that means is that you can't take evo, rebalance it, and call it something else or alphabet soupize it.

However, there will be nothing preventing you from taking all the units and stuff and making your own game out of it. Hell, it'll be even easier to work with than *A, and as other games make more lego units, you have a bigger pool to choose from and the whole thing snowballs.

Also, it's not like evo is done either. I have 2 more tech trees I want to add to it (at least), and more lego units means that I can kitbash my way to victory.

The idea is that everybody wins with this arrangement.

[Zealot]

Hey I've just about finished my modeling unit at uni, and have been doing heaps of modeling lately.

I probably should be spending more time on making the units for my game, but this is a cool opportunity to help the community.
People here help me out all the time, so ill give it a go and see if i can knock up a few units.

Do you have any stylistic guidelines? are there any visual themes you are trying to keep or are interested in exploring with designs?

Ill have to have a look at this lego thing and see how it works.

It is just taking pretextured pieces and putting them together to make interesting units, isnt it?

[smoth]

forb you were doing fine the other night when I was helping you. You just need to give yourself more patience. You'll get there and you should give yourself more time.

zealot. he isn't going to have a formal style guide. can you not emulate his current models? a small handful of all his models are in need of remodel/retexture. Just use his existing unit as a general outline and keep the detail level consistent with his other lego units. the pieces used are from kaiser's lego file. A search for kaiser and lego under the resources section will yield the file with his pieces

[Zealot]

@smoth.

Yeah I was planning to do pretty much what u said.

I just always like to ask for as much detail as possible before starting a project, so that I dont make assumptions and then have to redo everything when the client had a different idea than me.

This probably comes across as asking stupid questions, but it is just a habit I have developed after many annoying hours of iteration, which could have been avoided by having a clear understanding of the brief, or desired outcome the first time around.

In this case I did not expect much of an answer, but I would rather check. As forb mentioned above, his hovercraft are anti grav rather than air lifted. Now I know this wont make a unit based off a big fan in its centre. It is small details like this which is what I was looking for.

Just trying to explain my thought process.

Thanks for the clarification though.

[smoth]

dude, don't worry about stupid questions, I frequently ask them. I am just trying to help forb by acting as an inbetween. He usually isn't online until much later.

[Zealot]

Cool. No worries.


I'll start on the process but it may be a few weeks before I have much to show, as I have end of semester assignments due in a few weeks.

[Forboding Angel]

Wrt stylistic guidelines, I would say, just try to make it fit in with the existing lego units. You can see them all here: http://www.wiki.evolutionrts.info/doku. ... :factories

And base the new designs upon the old models. It doesn't need to be verbatim, and feel free to be creative, but just try to make them look like they belong ;p

Zealot, in the OP you will see a link to a wings/3ds file that has all the pieces, and another that is the material used for those pieces. All you gotta do is put pieces together and make units out of the pieces

@smoth, thanks. Today was supposed to be an easy day workwise but it's 2pm and I'm still swamped. Didn't see this coming

But yeah. Basically, I suck and designing stuff from scratch... But kitbashing? I got #demskillz.
In my head I am thinking that once I have a tank or two to work off of, I will be able to kitbash a bunch of stuff together fairly quickly. I hope so anyway.

Someone sent me a pm earlier regarding the license stuffs, and I should prolly post my reply here just to make things more clear:

I don't want to derail your thread, so asking in PM:
I do want to make this clear though... Evo will still have a No Derivatives license (without permission), but all that means is that you can't take evo, rebalance it, and call it something else or alphabet soupize it.
So what can we do with it, and what is exactly prohibited? Can I make a new game based solely on evo units? What about scenarios (a Spring mutator mod, which just reference evorts, and don't copy anything), is it ok then too?

PS: I don't think it's fair to say it's IP free if you still have IP on it (it's not public domain).

My Reply:

Yeah I figured that prolly wasn't clear. Look my main concern is that I don't want someone taking evo, changing some numbers and calling it "Balanced Evo" or something like that.

So yes, you could roll your own game with only evo units. Hell that's the point, but evos game play is pretty unique. I mean, to rip that off you would actually have to be trying to rip it off. Ideally you would also be using your own modified skin for the units too, but regardless of that, hopefully it's a little bit less murky.

The assets will be IP free for anyone to use, the game as a whole will not be (unless someone wants to make a mutator and they ask me first).

Hopefully this clears up my intentions

[FireStorm_]

I've spent an hour building / messing about with the lego.
I worried though if I might be doing stuff that is not-seen in existing units.

1) Can I cut stuff in half, and mirror the half, to get a new part?
2) Can I warp geometry? i.e. Move a single side to get a thinner beam.
3) Animations... More to do and more to break down? Or the more the merrier?
4) The provided texture... Do/will units look like what the texture currently looks like? (I feel the texture doesn't match in-game appearance.)

[Anarchid]

(I feel the texture doesn't match in-game appearance.)

As far as i understand, the current texture is one of the real causes for the remake, "because it's all grey".

So either vanilla or slightly altered "lego texture" is what is going to happen :)

[Forboding Angel]

Yeah, exactly what anarchid said. As an example, here is what that texture looks like ingame (the factory is the only thing in this shot that isn't lego).



As you can see, even if you don't know the units, you can still tell them apart, and they look fanfriggingtastic up close.

This texture is subject to change. Smoth is working some magic on it to make it 1000000x more "betterer", so what you are seeing here is just a representative change.

I've spent an hour building / messing about with the lego.
I worried though if I might be doing stuff that is not-seen in existing units.

1) Can I cut stuff in half, and mirror the half, to get a new part?
2) Can I warp geometry? i.e. Move a single side to get a thinner beam.
3) Animations... More to do and more to break down? Or the more the merrier?
4) The provided texture... Do/will units look like what the texture currently looks like? (I feel the texture doesn't match in-game appearance.)

1) Yep

2) should be able to, just make sure that it doesn't look all crappy. For that matter, you can also adjust the UV to make it do whatever you like.

3) For tanks, I want them in 3 pieces. Base, turret and barrel. This is for performance reasons. Performance cost goes up exponentially on units with tons of pieces. For a perfect example, see the peewee in *A. I have no problem making fancy animations on units, but keep performance in mind as well. Feel free to go over the piece count if there is a good reason (like a sick animation that is just dying to be born, etc ;p )

4) Yep, and see above response. Spring has a bad habit of making units look samey. THis is largely due to zoom levels, but also becuase we have a tendency to monochrome our textures to some extent. This is one area where BAR excels, as all the units have a highly contrasted texture that makes picking them out of a crowd very easy. Evo has extremely monochromatic units while the effects and stuff are extremely over the top and colorful.

You should probably grab the latest test versions with the lobby so that you can see these units in game first hand (or you can just grab the svn .sdd at http://www.source.evolutionrts.info).

Anything you make is in danger of being kitbashed by me with other units to make new ones

I suggest you redo the pyromaniac flame raider at some point so that I can call it the "FireStorm"

[knorke]

When opening legosv2.wings Wings says:
"Bad image lego2skin2048_2"

The texture file is named "lego2skin_explorer5 - experiment2.png" so maybe that is why. File-import image, drag texture on material did not work. Tried assign material to selection, but stuff remained black & untextured.
Can you set up materials & add all the needed files so one has to doubleclick the .wings file and all the pieces are there, with texture?

It worked after I copied lego2skin2048_2.png from Kaisers original lego next to the .wings file.

[Forboding Angel]

Really? Shit. Yeah let me fix it up real quick.

Edit: Fixed, thanks for the heads up.

Edit2: This will be the new hoverfac





CEG effects will be taking place in the little generator thingies.

Edit3: As you can see from that file, a jumpjet class of walker units are being considered.

[FireStorm_]

In my experience the texture is reset to a single black pixel
to fix do following:
- open file in wings, click on texture, chose: "make external". Name it anything you want.
- open the file in an image editor (which was just made external); it's a 1x1 image.
- resize to the resolution of your texture en copy the texture into the resized image. then save the image.
- go back to wings and refresh the texture.

Also:
I started lego building using a lot of the gray-blue-ish parts. that's why it looked different to me. The other parts are more consistent with what I see in the screenshot. And of course thanks forb for clarifying stuff I'll see if I can come up with something.

[knorke]

FireStorm_ yes iirc it was 1x1 image on export. thanks for explaining, ill just use fixed version though so it surely is correct etc.
Btw there is "Defaul1 Material" to "default5" or something, if those have any difference/function would be good to have meaningful names.

Performance cost goes up exponentially on units with tons of pieces.

exponentially?
also http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 63#p545451 and following.
---

Spring has a bad habit of making units look samey. THis is largely due to zoom levels, but also becuase we have a tendency to monochrome our textures to some extent

Mostly it is unit design. For example your example picture is a factory where all units:
1) have 4 legs
2) have square base
3) nothing
4) have same-sized weapons that are not very detailed or even visible at that zoom.

[FireStorm_]

bigger

Amphibian Tank concept. (just letting know I think I almost have something )

[smoth]

I really really hate when people stretch textures like that.