Content - Engine Liason

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 30 Nov 2011, 23:14

It just occurred to me, might it be an idea to have a content dev assigned as a special liaison to the engine team?

They'd:

1. Keep informed by direct communication about upcoming engine changes content devs need to be aware of (They could have a dedicated thread instead of all the little announcements)

2. Explain to content devs why certain changes have been made (A firewall between engine-content dev conflict?)

3. Perhaps observe engine dev meetings and field any major issues content devs have asked them to raise (as a single routine agenda item, not a never-ending MTR list of complaints, requests and quibbles)

Ideally it'd be someone who:

1. Already checks the git log and mantis on a regular basis
2. Has a history of testing upcoming engine changes
3. Has a generally reputable character and has avoided any major spats with devs on either side
4. Has a thick skin to bear the flames

Any thoughts? Does this have merit or is it a pointless bit of bureaucracy? Any suggestions who? (And no I'm not putting myself forward)

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 30 Nov 2011, 23:20

How would adding a middleman improve the communication?

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 30 Nov 2011, 23:22

zwzsg wrote:How would adding a middleman improve the communication?

Instead of 10 (semi-irate) content devs asking 5 (overworked) engine devs the same 10 questions every 5 days, we have 1 (non-caustic) person asking and informing others - with a formal way to bring issues to the table.

Or at least that's the idea.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 30 Nov 2011, 23:48

Lol I fit none of your criterion

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 01 Dec 2011, 00:19

I guess Flozi means things like for example the "infolog is buffered thing."
Appearently engine devs discussed it but only from engine side. Had a game maker been present he could have shouted "nonono we need instant infolog for debugging!"

But I think that

have a content dev assigned as a special liaison to the engine team

this can not be forced.
Generally more people need to be encouraged to edit wiki/make bug reports/write guides/read commits, it should not become the job of a single person.
In the infolog case anybody could have replied to the meeting thread. It is just that nobody did because the thread was not read or nobody understood the issue. -> ALL gamedevs should read those threads and post questions?

What I would wish for from enginedevs is if the changelog was a bit more detailed on some things. For example if new functions are added, give the parameters so game devs can add to wiki (I understand engine devs do not always have time for that)

changelog.txt wrote: - added widget call-in PlayerRemoved

bad: what are the parameters?

changelog.txt wrote: - added callins for collision events
UnitUnitCollision(colliderID, collideeID) -- needs SetWatchUnit enabled for both parties

better. But also: parameters for SetWatchUnit: does it take unitIDs or unitDefIDs? etc.
Some things might be easy to figure out but not everything.

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 01 Dec 2011, 00:39

Mission Impossible X: Finding a non caustic member of the Spring community.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Dec 2011, 01:13

I put forward Cookiebot as a viable candidate

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 01 Dec 2011, 18:33

Das Bruce wrote:Mission Impossible X: Finding a non caustic member of the Spring community.

Surely the devastating flaw in my proposal.

More fuel for the fire;

"I've spent basically all day trying to get anyone to respond in #sy"

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 01 Dec 2011, 18:42

FLOZi wrote:"I've spent basically all day trying to get anyone to respond in #sy"

I question the validity of this claim, there is a good chance whoever made it was either:
A) being ignored
B) trying for like 5 minutes then leaving.

ANY content dev that needs something can find someone within a DAY.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 01 Dec 2011, 18:44

seperate post as I feel the other one is a response to what must be a joke

FLOZi wrote:
Das Bruce wrote:Mission Impossible X: Finding a non caustic member of the Spring community.
Surely the devastating flaw in my proposal.

That is the issue, for someone to stick around and be involved enough to know anything they have to have been involved in something caustic. People just get that way when they are actively working on things.

You cannot find someone passionate enough about the engine and content development who ISN'T at least a little caustic. It seems that prolonged involvement in this community DOES THAT TO PEOPLE.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 01 Dec 2011, 22:10

smoth wrote:
FLOZi wrote:"I've spent basically all day trying to get anyone to respond in #sy"
I question the validity of this claim, there is a good chance whoever made it was either:
A) being ignored
B) trying for like 5 minutes then leaving.

ANY content dev that needs something can find someone within a DAY.

Orly? I did neither, smoth. Look, here are the logs from #sy yesterday.

http://pastebin.com/LSiDLErb

MidKnight · Post by **MidKnight** » 01 Dec 2011, 22:40

smoth wrote:seperate post as I feel the other one is a response to what must be a joke
FLOZi wrote:
Das Bruce wrote:Mission Impossible X: Finding a non caustic member of the Spring community.
Surely the devastating flaw in my proposal.
That is the issue, for someone to stick around and be involved enough to know anything they have to have been involved in something caustic. People just get that way when they are actively working on things.

You cannot find someone passionate enough about the engine and content development who ISN'T at least a little caustic. It seems that prolonged involvement in this community DOES THAT TO PEOPLE.

I don't believe that.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 01 Dec 2011, 23:14

Regardless of whether or not there is a suitable candidate (Car?) does anyone think its even worth pursuing? Any engine devs have an input?

CarRepairer · Post by **CarRepairer** » 02 Dec 2011, 00:21

Don't even name-drop me. I don't match any of the criteria. We all know it's you.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 02 Dec 2011, 00:39

Honestly yes I would like to do it - but I don't have the time currently.

I thought you were reasonably au fait with the engine, are you not?

Also I didn't think anyone had any problems with you

There is actually already someone who de-facto forms this communication bridge; jK, but it seems untenable for him to be the root of everything, rather he should have a counterpart on the other side of the fence.

Or I'm just being silly with flights of delusional fancy. Quite possible.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 02 Dec 2011, 01:08

Forboding Angel wrote:Orly? I did neither, smoth. Look, here are the logs from #sy yesterday.

http://pastebin.com/LSiDLErb

Let's see, you asked for help and got it immediately.
You didn't ask for a dev so anyone answering you was an answer.
I asked for jk, immediately was answered, you did and he did, but did answer when he was there and addressed.
you asked a question and asked for any dev, answer from jk almost immediately.

just because you ask a question in #SY doesn't mean that the devs are the only people who have to answer. Also when you DID ask for a dev in your occasional begging you did get it. So yeah, and that was only in a 6 hour span... imagine a whole day. you know that they are also spread around the world in different times, what is a convenient time for you may not be for them.

just saying, don't exaggerate so much, they do what they can.

MK: too bad, I have yet to see it happen. Everyone in this thread except for with your forced positive outlook has some issue.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 02 Dec 2011, 02:57

Read the log next time.

VBS only helped me with one small thing.

I asked for devs multiple times, and jk answered once about 6 hours later with "too late".

I was around all night. I was around all day today, and finally, hoijui helped me out.

I didn't post the log from today. I was just showing yesterday.

Noon my time is a fairly convenient time in Germany. 2 - 4am my time is usually a very convenient time for Europeans (and Germans about noon-afternoon).

_________________________________________________________
Flozi, no one fits the criteria except you. I'm pretty sure you know that.

If it means I won't get answers from devs except via you, I vehemently oppose it. If it simply means that dev stuff we should know about will filter through you, that's fine.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 02 Dec 2011, 07:52

I don't test that much and I've had arguments with pretty much everyone at some point. Except Tobi, everyone loves Tobi.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 02 Dec 2011, 13:38

<3 tobi

PicassoCT · Post by **PicassoCT** » 02 Dec 2011, 14:34

i volunteer, but as always nobody would take anything i propose for serious buisness. Allready now, i have to use others, to state my srs opinion.

smoth wrote: ... we should add tagable objects (like tanks, shields, flags) whos textures get synced before the game starts, to unsteep the learning curve for newcomers. From painting a map, to painting on a tank, till programing in lua, it should be one clifffree learning curve.

Like going from choclat cigaretts to crystal meth.

As always smoth makes a excellent point here, although i disassociate myself from the flaming against choclat crystall and meth cigarrs.

INC AX

Spring RTS Engine

Content - Engine Liason

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