A Fark or Necron costs about 1k metal and can ressourect Buildings and Units with a Speed of 4 advanced Konstuction Vehicles. In about 5 minutes the Unit can "build" Units with a price 100 times higher than it cost. Shall this be?
I mean you attack with let it be 10 Bulldogs... and after the fight in 5 minutes your enemy attacks you with 20 Bulldogs (10 have your name on their hull -.-).
I mean the game is at a point where not tactic is important but only RessKbots. I spectated some games where the team which plays a lot better only died because of this unit. Ok its a tactic too, but what explains their speed to ressourcet Units? In OTA you need more than 5 minutes for a Krogoth and so u need to defend them but here its done in less than one minute or so (didnt used a clock).
Ressourection KBots Bug or Feature?
Moderator: Moderators
the way most of us play is to spam those farks on, if we didn't have farks we would use con-planes, if we didn't have those we'd use ADV construction Kbots... the fark is acctually quite expensive compared to those, but construction speed is important to the game and accelleration is only possible with some kind spammer... though honestly I would prefer con-towers with long range and high cost...
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
Hey, i got a new unit idea. It's called USE THE XTA BALANCE TREAHD FFS!
It got dual lasers and hell alot of hp. It has a special rock papper sizzor system to be affective agsint anoying spammers.
Srsly, everyone who reads this treadh, DONT POST! DON'T ENGORAGE THIS BEHAVIOR! THERE IS AN XTA BALANCE TREADH FOR A RESON!
It got dual lasers and hell alot of hp. It has a special rock papper sizzor system to be affective agsint anoying spammers.
Srsly, everyone who reads this treadh, DONT POST! DON'T ENGORAGE THIS BEHAVIOR! THERE IS AN XTA BALANCE TREADH FOR A RESON!
Discussing the speed at which a res/fark resurrects is hardly the same as arguing about XTA balance issues. Maybe your the spammer?Kixxe wrote:Hey, i got a new unit idea. It's called USE THE XTA BALANCE TREAHD FFS!
It got dual lasers and hell alot of hp. It has a special rock papper sizzor system to be affective agsint anoying spammers.
Srsly, everyone who reads this treadh, DONT POST! DON'T ENGORAGE THIS BEHAVIOR! THERE IS AN XTA BALANCE TREADH FOR A RESON!
As for the issue at hand, I think it should cost atleast 2 times what it does now to resurrect units. I can only see positive benefits to the gameplay from doing this.
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
In OTA you could resurrect the debris that was shattered.. In Spring you can only resurrect completed corpses...
I used to make maps for OTA where I'd hide "Secret corpses" across the map by just sprinkling the shattered debris in. A shattered Krogoth is a LOT easier to resurrect. But... Spring doesn't support that, so... There's your balancing right there.. But really what your saying is not that anything is balanced or unbalanced, because that concept is almost exclusively based on what you or the average person does to counter it. THe goal your looking for is to make the use of any one thing difficult to win with. Anything that's too easy, is "unbalanced". I really don't mind the whole cost of resurrecting, not cause I use it to win, but because I use it to compensate when say... My base just got gutted and I managed to push off an attack.. Being able to get back something (including some remainants of an army) is always a welcome treat.
Plus if you don't want to let him resurrect stuff, smash the bodies to dust. I'll bet you anything he's guarding those a WHOLE lot less than anything else. If your afraid of undead, just do what you can to lob a nuke or 2 into the battle field. That'll at least liquify most/part or the entire pile. And then your spared the return of the dead.
Or try and get there first and put land mines in the debris field. Or just claim it for yourself.. Mass reclaim/resurrect...
(Balancing complaints just bug me, cause in real life you don't get to complain that your enemy is using unbalanced weapons. You just deal with it and find ways around it.) If all else fails use unit restrictions or player honor system. Which only works if you've got honorable players of course.
As for FARK/Unit "Spamming" I got to find out first hand that 3 factories with lots of anythings (even con planes which have the worst build rates) can out produce 30 unspammed factories. I know, I had the 30 and my friend had the 3... His 3 factories were despirately out stripping my 30. So don't get upity about FARK "Spamming" he's just using his resources wisely. But like I said, it litterally makes ZERO difference what units you use, and that's what makes TA GREAT! Cause you can improvize as you need to. (And I think most people who don't are just not giving themselves enough leeway to find new solutions to their problems.)
Just so you know I subscribe to my own doctrine, I through Vulcans were the counter for Krogoths, but at the time at least, my vulcan's had the accuracy of a blind drunk. I couldn't HIT the Krogoths much less kill the 30 I had to face off with. I didn't give myself enough room to find solutions, such as I didn't think to use brawlers to take down the Krogoths. Even brawlers can be shielded against now but point is there's a way out of anything... All you have to do is find it.
I used to make maps for OTA where I'd hide "Secret corpses" across the map by just sprinkling the shattered debris in. A shattered Krogoth is a LOT easier to resurrect. But... Spring doesn't support that, so... There's your balancing right there.. But really what your saying is not that anything is balanced or unbalanced, because that concept is almost exclusively based on what you or the average person does to counter it. THe goal your looking for is to make the use of any one thing difficult to win with. Anything that's too easy, is "unbalanced". I really don't mind the whole cost of resurrecting, not cause I use it to win, but because I use it to compensate when say... My base just got gutted and I managed to push off an attack.. Being able to get back something (including some remainants of an army) is always a welcome treat.
Plus if you don't want to let him resurrect stuff, smash the bodies to dust. I'll bet you anything he's guarding those a WHOLE lot less than anything else. If your afraid of undead, just do what you can to lob a nuke or 2 into the battle field. That'll at least liquify most/part or the entire pile. And then your spared the return of the dead.
Or try and get there first and put land mines in the debris field. Or just claim it for yourself.. Mass reclaim/resurrect...
(Balancing complaints just bug me, cause in real life you don't get to complain that your enemy is using unbalanced weapons. You just deal with it and find ways around it.) If all else fails use unit restrictions or player honor system. Which only works if you've got honorable players of course.
As for FARK/Unit "Spamming" I got to find out first hand that 3 factories with lots of anythings (even con planes which have the worst build rates) can out produce 30 unspammed factories. I know, I had the 30 and my friend had the 3... His 3 factories were despirately out stripping my 30. So don't get upity about FARK "Spamming" he's just using his resources wisely. But like I said, it litterally makes ZERO difference what units you use, and that's what makes TA GREAT! Cause you can improvize as you need to. (And I think most people who don't are just not giving themselves enough leeway to find new solutions to their problems.)
Just so you know I subscribe to my own doctrine, I through Vulcans were the counter for Krogoths, but at the time at least, my vulcan's had the accuracy of a blind drunk. I couldn't HIT the Krogoths much less kill the 30 I had to face off with. I didn't give myself enough room to find solutions, such as I didn't think to use brawlers to take down the Krogoths. Even brawlers can be shielded against now but point is there's a way out of anything... All you have to do is find it.
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Optimus Prime
- Posts: 755
- Joined: 03 Oct 2005, 14:31
I cant share ur arguments cause normaly the input (metal and energy) shall make the output, but a Ressunit only need to ress ONE single Bulldog and it is ok.
A Fark (even if its at front) ressurects about 5-10 Units before it dies and all Units are bigger and more expensive than the Fark costs (average in my games).
What I would suggest is, to half the Workertime. The effect would be, that you need to defend them more and you still can ressurect big armies. It would only be a bit more tactic cause now a Fark is very fast, so u can run to the wrecks and if the enemy dont have airunits the wrecks are faster ressurected than he can send units.
A Fark (even if its at front) ressurects about 5-10 Units before it dies and all Units are bigger and more expensive than the Fark costs (average in my games).
What I would suggest is, to half the Workertime. The effect would be, that you need to defend them more and you still can ressurect big armies. It would only be a bit more tactic cause now a Fark is very fast, so u can run to the wrecks and if the enemy dont have airunits the wrecks are faster ressurected than he can send units.
All big Units die with wrecks and you cant destroy them in battle (only if your are much stronger).In OTA you could resurrect the debris that was shattered.. In Spring you can only resurrect completed corpses...
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
So just split your farks up, tell half to guard the other half, and do the same thing.. Or use con planes or something.. That's not the be all end all of it either.A Fark (even if its at front) ressurects about 5-10 Units before it dies and all Units are bigger and more expensive than the Fark costs (average in my games).
What I would suggest is, to half the Workertime.
Plus construction units are constantly making things that cost n'th times more expensive then they are.. Yet.. No.. One I've ever heard ever complains about them that way.. Resurrection units are just con units with a target-of-oportunity build menu. And true they are cheaper in someways but unlike con units they're generally out in much more dangerous places. (I'd personally prefer to be able to pick myself back up after a devostating blow to my economy, using resurrectors. Heck that's half the point of keeping them around I'd say.)
Ah yes, this is true, and it's also probably why you still have wrecks after a battle. I'm suggesting that you do something post skirmish... You win or you lose if you win, go ahead, take the field if you can.. If you lose... Go ahead, make sure (if you can) that he's not going to profit from it. I dunno how, since that's only something you can figure out when that moment comes.All big Units die with wrecks and you cant destroy them in battle (only if your are much stronger).
(Appologiges for the length of the previous post.. I really gotta stop writing essays when I respond.
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BlackLiger
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 21:58
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I think ressurection has been proving very valuable in games.
But in some specific situations, it is extremely valuable, which are in situations where the game is blocked by defenses. When we're fighting artilery duels, many times BB wars and stuff. Very frustrating when you can't reach them by land, so you just build up your artilery and, soon after you managed to bring down one of the oponents BBs or Guardians or Pops, he's back up ressurected.
I also complained about ressurection recently. At the time, i said it should cost metal in the amount equal to the diference between a new unit and the amount of metal in the carcass.
I'm yet to be 100% sure but i think ressurection is overpowered and clearly favours too much defense (that is, if it's not made a thing to be exclusive of the comander which we can only have one).
But in some specific situations, it is extremely valuable, which are in situations where the game is blocked by defenses. When we're fighting artilery duels, many times BB wars and stuff. Very frustrating when you can't reach them by land, so you just build up your artilery and, soon after you managed to bring down one of the oponents BBs or Guardians or Pops, he's back up ressurected.
I also complained about ressurection recently. At the time, i said it should cost metal in the amount equal to the diference between a new unit and the amount of metal in the carcass.
I'm yet to be 100% sure but i think ressurection is overpowered and clearly favours too much defense (that is, if it's not made a thing to be exclusive of the comander which we can only have one).
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
Commander only resurrection isn't so hard to do. Just edit 4 files and your done. Open xta_se_v065.sdz (or whatever mod your using) goto units folder and extract: ARMCOM.FBI, ARMFARK.FBI, CORCOM.FBI, and CORNECRO.FBI
Extract these files to a subdirectory called "Units" under your Spring directory.
Go down to the 2nd to last line of CORNECRO.FBI and ARMFARK.FBI and just cut the line that says:" canresurrect=1;" and paste it into ARMCOM.FBI and CORCOM.FBI Or you can change those lines to" canresurrect=0;" which is the same thing as cutting them out.
And Vwalla! You've got yourself a commander only resurrection XTA variant Mod! And all you have to do is share those 4 files with your friends and your good to go! (You can enable/disable them as you'd like simply by renaming the directory or editing the files again.) (Actually doing it that way would mean all commanders can resurrect and no necros or farks can. But meh.. I'm sure you'll be happy with that side effect.)
Farks and Necros would still be useful as they're now just fast acting repair bots that make good construction assistants.
Extract these files to a subdirectory called "Units" under your Spring directory.
Go down to the 2nd to last line of CORNECRO.FBI and ARMFARK.FBI and just cut the line that says:" canresurrect=1;" and paste it into ARMCOM.FBI and CORCOM.FBI Or you can change those lines to" canresurrect=0;" which is the same thing as cutting them out.
And Vwalla! You've got yourself a commander only resurrection XTA variant Mod! And all you have to do is share those 4 files with your friends and your good to go! (You can enable/disable them as you'd like simply by renaming the directory or editing the files again.) (Actually doing it that way would mean all commanders can resurrect and no necros or farks can. But meh.. I'm sure you'll be happy with that side effect.)
Farks and Necros would still be useful as they're now just fast acting repair bots that make good construction assistants.
Yes.BlackLiger wrote:On a similar subject, I know OTA didn't allow air units to resurect or capture. Does spring yet?
I was about to suggest the metal thing. Or at the very least, it should cost like 90 times the lacking metal, in energy (i.e. the fark is an inefficient portable metal maker.) I agree with the other suggestion to make commanders the only resurrectors. That would rock :)PauloMorfeo wrote:I think ressurection has been proving very valuable in games.
But in some specific situations, it is extremely valuable, which are in situations where the game is blocked by defenses. When we're fighting artilery duels, many times BB wars and stuff. Very frustrating when you can't reach them by land, so you just build up your artilery and, soon after you managed to bring down one of the oponents BBs or Guardians or Pops, he's back up ressurected.
I also complained about ressurection recently. At the time, i said it should cost metal in the amount equal to the diference between a new unit and the amount of metal in the carcass.
I'm yet to be 100% sure but i think ressurection is overpowered and clearly favours too much defense (that is, if it's not made a thing to be exclusive of the comander which we can only have one).
bah! Read MY stuff!(Appologiges for the length of the previous post.. I really gotta stop writing essays when I respond. Razz )
But i thought the F in fark was for Fast, as in speed of movement, fast. So it could zip around your base, repairing the holes in your defences. Cause most con units, other then the plane, are really slow, and a fast ground one would be usefull.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Well, I could make a unit in my mod called the SCEKE for Super cost effective kill everything, it costs 200 metal and has 300000 hitpoints and fires 5 bertha rounds a second at infinate range with perfect accuracy.Zoombie wrote:bah! Read MY stuff!(Appologiges for the length of the previous post.. I really gotta stop writing essays when I respond. Razz )
But i thought the F in fark was for Fast, as in speed of movement, fast. So it could zip around your base, repairing the holes in your defences. Cause most con units, other then the plane, are really slow, and a fast ground one would be usefull.
The fact of the matter is that even though the unit had such a crazy annogram for it's name it would still be totally unbalanced.
