Future of EU: "a Greath thud" a.k.a "Iso Jytky" from Finland

[SirArtturi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/world ... nland.html

There has been growing interest in the world especially in eurozone of the result of finnish parliamentary elections, which took place about week ago. The deepest concern has been the populist party called True Finns and their crushing victory that we in Finland are calling as "Iso Jytky" (loosely in english "a Great thud"). True Finns gained 39 (from the last 5) seats and became one of the biggest parties in parliament.

EU is shivering because this populist party is saying no to the monetary bailouts for crumbling Euro nations and to the monetary politics that has been running EU for years towards Federation. The whole opposition has been criticizing the lack of responsibility of the banks and investors that has been according high-yielding credit for the Euro countries, like Greece and Ireland, in economical turmoil. The one essential reason for resentment has also been the unjust share in these bailouts taking into consideration how small has been the amount of Finland's receivables compared to others like U.K that in Greece case put no money in the pot.

It has been debated that probable resistance of finns on the bailouts could break the neck of EU. Overreaction or true concern?

How's the "jytky" feeling for you europeans?

[Satirik]

people in europe only want to get from it and they don't want to give to it, if a part of europe needs help no one will help, but if a part of your country does, the rest of your country will help, european don't feel european at all, they hated each other for centuries, so it's easy to say if everything is wrong in your country it's because of europe, the best way to get nationalism is to have a common enemy, what ever it is, as long as we can all hate it together :)

fins are just as retarded as other european, it will take a while, or won't happen, before european act like a nation, maybe a war could help

[TradeMark]

one solution i would agree on is to give us the total control over those countries we bail out. so basically we would buy their country. and then we will also ensure they wont do the mistakes again.

think if all the mid-east countries joined to EU... soon theres 10 ministers crying out loud how selfish we are because we dont want to give them money to build their countries up.

one thing pisses me off most, is that we actually took 1.5billion loan just to pay it for portugal. while we have 80billion debt already.

the best way to get nationalism is to have a common enemy, what ever it is, as long as we can all hate it together :)

luckily that enemy already exists... takes 20 years to actually cause any actions, though, its been good development in the past years.

--

i dont think True Finns party will remain as popular at next elections. they "won" just because of media, and thus got all the troll votes from people who usually votes for Donald Duck.

[hoijui]

TM being included in a group that has total control over a foreign country...
i really did not have to read on; brilliant idea!

[Wombat]

one thing pisses me off most, is that we actually took 1.5billion loan just to pay it for portugal. while we have 80billion debt already.

did i miss something ? when did YOU take any loan... i think it was portugal :'

[PicassoCT]

I think we should take a exampel on the usual responsibilityapproach there. We nail wooden planks to the borderexits and harbours of the bankrupt countrys, and then leave in the midst of night, to make a fresh new start in a new, near-natives- country under a diffrent name. Worked for the last centurys, so why not try it?

I mean, whats the options here? Hard work, to pay off our debts? Writting new goverment structures from scratch- this time including the possibilitys that major quimby and those dhingis khan buisnessmeni would again become leading personal? Fuck this shit, there is plenty of planet to go around. Lets move to japa- well lets move to america- i heard the natives, beeing on the run from there own debts, have left it desolate, so here we can start again, for another great cycle.

If you ever didnt pay at a restaurant, and washed the dishes for a few hundred guests, you will agree with me. Fuck your decendants, and the dessert we will leave them behind, we the apes demand moar grapes. NOAW!

[Satirik]

one thing pisses me off most, is that we actually took 1.5billion loan just to pay it for portugal. while we have 80billion debt already.

did i miss something ? when did YOU take any loan... i think it was portugal :'

well it explains why fins voted for the true fins, cause they're too retarded

[TradeMark]

did i miss something ? when did YOU take any loan... i think it was portugal :'

yes you did? we also loaned money from elsewhere, just to be able to loan it back to portugal. lol.

[Satirik]

did i miss something ? when did YOU take any loan... i think it was portugal :'

yes you did? we also loaned money from elsewhere, just to be able to loan it back to portugal. lol.

so you won't have to pay one cent for portugal ... you're just sharing your loan rates

[Cheesecan]

bla bla bla-bla-bla blablalba

Man, I love your posts. The work on a whole other level.

My suggestion is we invade Portugal and liberate them from their fascist oppressors. Then we can create a working democracy in that country and everything will be fine. Forever.

[Wombat]

lol what a fail, then congratz for ur government haha, i suppose they just panicked coz of media.

@topic - these thuds are nothing special tbh... germans got neonazis in parlament, i think it was prime minister in czech that wanted to leave EU (even if its impossible, also they are most 'anti-EU' country in the europe).

define 'break the neck', becouse finland doesnt have much to say in EU (sorry)

only 4 votes in council of the european union and finland doesnt give much to the budget (compared to the top countries)

[KDR_11k]

Well, if you don't bail those countries out then the Euro's value will crash.

germans got neonazis in parlament

At most at state level. They are not present at the federal level.

[SirArtturi]

one solution i would agree on is to give us the total control over those countries we bail out. so basically we would buy their country. and then we will also ensure they wont do the mistakes again.

You must be joking. How would you feel Trademark if Finland would go bankcrupt and Sweden would buy us. If we bought Greece, why wouldn't we garrison our armies there aswell and made Schwarzenegger head of the state. Greece whatsoever is already pretty much under the rule of IMF and the lenders. Poor Greece has lost it's economical sovereignity which is very sad.

one thing pisses me off most, is that we actually took 1.5billion loan just to pay it for portugal. while we have 80billion debt already.

did i miss something ? when did YOU take any loan... i think it was portugal :'

well it explains why fins voted for the true fins, cause they're too retarded

Who is being retarded here Satirik? Ofc we are taking loan for bailouts. Our Government budget is deficient. Where else we could get the money?

define 'break the neck', becouse finland doesnt have much to say in EU (sorry)

Sorry to you, but while Finland haven't had much say in most of the EU issues, which is sad, in this case however Finland's say is quite crucial. We basically have veto for this temporal bailout mechanism. We are one of the 6th leading lenders with AAA-credit rating meaning that we are granted with low-interest loans, which we lend to low-credit rating countries with high interest. That is financial business you know...

The problem is how Greece, Ireland and Portugal can ever pay back their loans with these kind of terms and the inhuman austerity measures?

Well, if you don't bail those countries out then the Euro's value will crash.

What do you mean by you? Are you saying that Euro's value is depending on our 8 billion for bailouts? Many countries have left out from former bailouts while we've been participating them all. Theres not much our money at stake either. Germany, France and U.K has tens of billions in receivables in Portugal and they are afraid of bankcrupting their lousy banks if everybody dont join in lending. We have 0.3 billion of receivables from Portugal. For us giving 8-16 billion for bailouts is unjust while we ourself are drastically deficient and already in debt. At this pace we soon are in need of bailouts.

Your statement does not leave much for choice and that is simply not true. There are lot of other ways. For me, and for many experts, debt restructuring seems one very good solution. That would mean much healthier start for these crumbling countries.

We are not retarded in Finland. We are very pedantic in our economics. We have always paid our debts. Tiny Finland was the only one who paid its WWII debts fully and on time.

[KaiserJ]

just wondering about the loans artturi that are available for you guys to get for finland to then turn and use as loans... what are they exactly; what is the wealth based on? who is loaning you the money? a quick google yielded nothing, and i'm interested to know

[TradeMark]

You must be joking. How would you feel Trademark if Finland would go bankcrupt and Sweden would buy us. If we bought Greece, why wouldn't we garrison our armies there aswell and made Schwarzenegger head of the state. Greece whatsoever is already pretty much under the rule of IMF and the lenders. Poor Greece has lost it's economical sovereignity which is very sad.

nah, if they want to keep their country, they wouldnt take the loan. But as they already pointed out, they dont give a crap about their country, so it shouldnt be a problem if we owned their lands.

I bet we would run their country 10x better anyways.

[SirArtturi]

KaiserJ

The loans granted to us are called bonds

Wealth is based on economical growth and the added value. There's lot of "thin air" in money markets and some of the growth is just illusion. That's tricky question KaiserJ, nobody can answer to that explicitly.

Who is loaning us money? That is much easier question. Simple answer: Banks.

[scifi]

hey just droped by saw this post and wanted to say some things, since i live in Portugal

ok reasons for economic breakdown:
- Public privite consortions (high ways, construction power plants.....)
Essencialy the state didnt had the money and asked private corporations for it, private sector said yes, but only with the condition that the investement had return value.
Huge mistake the state made, he agreed and covered for the risk of the investements, either it turned a profit or a disaster.
This counts now as 4.0% of the 9,1& deficit we have now.
So doing the math rigth without this stupid and ignorant move, our deficit would be of around 5.1%.

- Crappy justice
Our country had some good investement from outside companys like Nissan, but justice was so dam slow the response for the actual "go for" the investement took 3 years, so many investements went off.
(i know its stupid).
Local goverment had overspending due to bad laws, bad investements were made.

Now getting back on topic:
- European Union

Ok we need help, cant deny that, ok our political leaders are crap, sure , dont want to help us fine we can just take help from FMI alone.
I can understand finish people that have a view against helping my country. Problem is this is a step backward in the European union.
Maye when a economic bond was made, a political bond should have been made also.

Without a political union things like iligal imigration, market quota shares, are things that cut EU back in the line.

Just a example:
Spain has 3x more fish production quota than us, yet we have more sea and fertile areas to "fish" than them.
Now if we stoped for a moment and analise that the european union imports more Fish that it produces, we could say portugal could produce more Fish related products.
Production quotas are a hard thing to gain these days.

[hoijui]

:D :D
very nice there, scifi! :D

just for TM to understand it too:
if finnland will not pay, they'll let all africans in that want in, and will suggest them to go to finnland.

[Satirik]

well it explains why fins voted for the true fins, cause they're too retarded

Who is being retarded here Satirik? Ofc we are taking loan for bailouts. Our Government budget is deficient. Where else we could get the money?

wtf are you talking about ? seriously ? and btw all government budget are deficient ... what's your point ? you're not happy because i said fins are retarded ? don't worry i think the same about french ... actually i think most people are retarded but it's okay, as long as some people are not

[TradeMark]

if finnland will not pay, they'll let all africans in that want in, and will suggest them to go to finnland.

yeah i hope they go to Finnland too, whatever that is!