BA economic: best practice for noobs

[msafwan]

The following is a simple guideline that shows you how to get a good ECO in BA (v7.20). I did not create this guideline, instead; it was a result from a calculator function that I found in Spreadsheet software (OpenOffice Calc, Microsoft's Spreadsheet). The following is my conclusion on how to get good Eco ,(I also attached the Spreadsheet file).
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This is what I call "Step-By-Step method":

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	Step-By-Step method			
	Adv. Solar	Fusion	Adv. Fusion	Totalcost
Step1	4		0		0	20272
Step2	0		3		0	87045
Step3	0		0		4	292896

It involve making 4 Adv.Solar (during T1 phase), and then reclaim the Adv. Solars and make 3 Fusion (T2 phase), and then reclaim the Fusions and make 4 Adv. Fusion (T3 phase). This give enough energy output to create T1 or T2 or T3 units every 20 second respectively.

The following image compare 4 type of eco; the typical "all Adv. Solar" type, "Adv. Solar + Fusion" type, and "Adv. Solar + Fusion + Adv. Fusion" type.

It shows that "all Adv. Solar" method is expensive at very high energy output. What this mean is; you should not build too many "Solar"; as it will became very expensive later.
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The ideal metal output is :

T1= 19.3 (per second),
T2= 59.4 (per second),
T3= 514.9 (per second).

This will give enough metal to create T1 units, or T2 units, or T3 units every 20 second respectively. One real example is the Karg spam or Razor spam done by many "techer".

To cater for the unavailability of Metal spot; you need to build Metal Maker. Here is the ideal "Adv. Solar + Fusion" mix for feeding a variety of MetalMaker configuration (from 0 to 19.3 metal output per second) (T1 phase):

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	Adv. Solar	Fusion	TotalCost
Mm 0%	4	0	20272
Mm 25%	0	1	29015
Mm 50%	0	1	29015
Mm 75%	3	1	44219
Mm 100%	0	2	58030
Average:	1.4(~2)	1	

It is rather confusing so you take only the average; create ~2 Adv. Solar and 1 Fusion to create the 50% of the total 19.3 metal output per second (for T1 phase).

The following graph shows why you shouldn't make MetalMaker using "Adv. Solar" power source:

The cumulative cost of "Adv. Solar" is very expensive. As you can see; you should not make Solar to power you Metal Makers.

Here's the average mix for all T1, T2, T3 Phase:

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Adv. Solar	Fusion	Adv. Fusion
1.4(~2)	1
0.6(~1)	4.2(~4)
0.4(~1)	0.4(~1)	8

This configuration will at least power half your metal makers at different Phase. For example; ~1 Adv. Solar and ~4 Fusion for T2 phase will power at least 30 metal output per second ,(while also powering your factory).

There's also an average mix for MM at different Phases:

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T1 mm	T2 mm (moho)
1.4(~2)	2.4 (~3)
3.6(~4)	2.2 (~2)
3.6(~4)	21.4 (~22)

This will give the cheapest 50% of total metal output for that Phase. For example; you probably have 50% of the metal output (in T1 Phase) covered by Mex output, so you add another 50% (2 std. MM and 3 MohoMM) to fill the quota.
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Result were calculated using "Solver" function, (a Linear Programming function). Under "Tool--> Solver" in Spreadsheet. To use: Select the output of first equation, select the output of second equation, select the variable to change, set constraint on variable (eg; max 30 Adv Solar, max 30 Fusion), press Solve.

[babbles]

as if sim city wasn't fun enough

[smoth]

why not wind gens at t1?

[Johannes]

Ok, but can you win games with this shit?

[pintle]

Kinda completely pointless when you take into account the territorial expansion that is totally inherent to economy in BA.

And interaction with the enemy.

And unit wrecks/map reclaimables.

Oh and environmental energy income (wind/tidal/geo).

...and they say DSD is ruining Spring.


I mean this isolated tech economy thing would be useful for dsd nublets, but you miss the core part of 3 mex teching: com wreck reclaim.

[knorke]

interessting but you seem to miss one important point:
if you make a fusion it will not generate energy until it is 100% done.
if you make solars, they might be less effencient e per m wise but will already give a return if only 1,2,3,... of them are build.
Now interessting to know would be how long it takes for the fusion to overtake the solarfarm etc.

[Johannes]

interessting but you seem to miss one important point

only one? :D

[momfreeek]

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e/s per m outlay
.............. solr 0.14
.................. asol 0.18
....................... fusn 0.23
............................. afus 0.29

had this on my desktop. arm i think. e cost is included at tech level mm transfer rate

[babbles]

I feel like posting again to expand on my previous remark. Firstly, I find the title...not good. It implies that BA economy is the best guide for noobs coming to spring, not to BA.

Next, you're saying that following a set routine is the best practice for noobs? So ignoring the conditions of the map, any outside influence (allies/enemies) and doing the same default pattern every game is the best "practice" for noobs?

Let's pretend for a moment, that every spring game allows you to carry out this routine without anyone attacking you. Every player has only 3 metal spots, and is not allowed out of their area. Where do we go from here? Every player carries out this pattern? Where's the fun in that? And what's the point?

Now, you say this is the "best" guide pretty much. What does it teach for 1v1 economy? What does it teach for frontline economy? What does it teach about expansion? Are you saying players shouldn't expand outside of their little box? What happens if I'm not playing DSD? I see a unit, this was not in the guide! Or I see two metal spots just ahead of my base, but do I get them? If so, will this change the queue? Should I pause and recheck the spreadsheet?

All this teaches people is to play the same game everytime without deviation. It doesn't take into account allies, enemies, map resources or layout. How is telling people not to expand, don't reclaim wreckages, don't help allies, don't expect enemies incoming etc good advice let alone the "best practice"?

[FLOZi]

Move to BA forum?

[Otherside]

why not wind gens at t1?

This obviously relates to DSD and its shitty wind.

Rename thread to BADSD Economic: best practise for BA players

[knorke]

obv should be in BA forum, yes.

Next, you're saying that following a set routine is the best practice for noobs?

But why should it be needed to put a disclaimer ie "in real games you will have to adapt to enemy blabla" in front of every post? Everybody knows that anyway.

[TradeMark]

Those graphs looks weird... how adv solar can be better than fusions? There comes space limit with adv solars, also you have to move your con bots all the time... or build more nanos...

Its interesting graphs though, i've been thinking to make similar stuff, but been really lazy ass. Would be cool to calculate the best possible combination for best eco that actually works in game. (assuming you dont attack anyone or get attacked).

[babbles]

obv should be in BA forum, yes.

Next, you're saying that following a set routine is the best practice for noobs?

But why should it be needed to put a disclaimer ie "in real games you will have to adapt to enemy blabla" in front of every post? Everybody knows that anyway.

Because it's the "best practice"? The best implies that it teaches you how to use the economy in all ways, not on 1 map in 1 start position.

[knorke]

Because it's the "best practice"?

seeing how relative "best" is, topic should probally just be named "some numbers about ba economic"

Its interesting graphs though, i've been thinking to make similar stuff, but been really lazy ass. Would be cool to calculate the best possible combination for best eco that actually works in game.

ohi2u,me2. My idea was to filter knorkebot/demonaut reports for eco stuff and then parse games for stuff like "fastest nuke tech." Then it could give the buildorder of that player ie what he build/reclaimed until he got to nuke. Or just make a mission that does that. CA eco challenge is somewhat similiar.

[KaiserJ]

interesting graph; i can see some effort went into this

the sad thing is that anyone who needs this graph is probably too stupid to understand it

[albator]

Apprecite the effort but...

Best advice to give to noob, is to play front one game rather than read that thing that does not take build time and build power into account.

I dont even speak that even if it was takin that inco account, good micro/macro/reclaim can beat until 4 time better eco... So your tenth of percent does not matter at all.

[Pxtl]

So the tl;dr of this post is to always build advsolars on dsd for E?

[smoth]

don't trust a hoe
never trust a hoe
won't trust a hoe
won't trust me....

about as relevant.

best practice for noobs is to:

Play a match so they see how they don't know everything because they are a Pr() starcraft player
Now watch replay of how they lost
steal the other guy's build order

rinse and repeat until they have to steal tactics as well

grind skills at microing little pixel guys

get rid of personal life

become best player

NICE LEGS DAISY DUKES MAKES A MAN GO *WHISTLES*
THAT'S THE WAY THEY ALL COME THROUGH LIKE *WHISTLES*

[knorke]

?
why spend hours trying different buildorders if you can just use some thinking?
threads like this actually help cut down the needed "grind"